Phoenix = cosmic Rhino
Anyone here really think Shi'Ar lasers, Thor's blitz, or Xorn would wreck Galactus the way they've severely harmed the Phoenix Force? Bill did almost the same stunt against Galactus, which cracked his helmet a bit, but who then reformed. For such a powerful being the PF seems to run away from fights a lot, or get killed.
My post was in response to Zop but I will address this.
Originally posted by Mr Master
It was only "faint traces"
Faint or not. Thor wasn't able to affect it up until that point. That had to be the deciding factor.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Thor was holding the Phoenix Force back for a few panels,
and was injured but survived a direct full blast from the PF.I'd say that's a plus for Thor.
Any other hierarchal cosmic would've fried Thor to slag
worse that Galactus did to Hercules.
Now tell me when have you/or will you ever see Thor reduced to slag? This dude challenges Celestials and Big G with positive results for Gods sake. I agree its a plus.
Originally posted by Mr Master
My friend, I think you're seeing that incorrectly.Thor's hammer dispersed the Phoenix's flaring form and his hammer kept going and hit that planet.
It was not the PF showing off, it was Thor by mistake.
Lets take what you say as truth. Why was Thor looking so dumbfounded when he missed his mark? I didn't see the form disperse. There's no evidence of Mjlonir even making a connection after the toss.
Originally posted by Mr Master
What's the big deal about human instrumentation being in awe by cosmics?This has happened with lesser threats.
That was in reference to Zop saying Odins Enchantment>>PF.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Thor will always lose against Phoenix,
it's the fact that he can hold his own for while,
survive it's brutal attacks,
and damage it.This is what's standing out friend.
"Substantial?"
I haven't read that anywhere. I know a tiny portion is what Hope has so far.
Of course he'll lose but in these altercations he was still outclassed easily. And the only noticeable damage that was directly seen was after Mjolnir absorbed some of the Force.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Anyhow, I think these scans you didn't post broadens perspectives:Thor not only held his own for a while,
but managed to damage the Phoenix Force,
and again survived another devastating attack,
plus, the PF ran away from him.
See above.
Not you too with this running away crap?
I know you hate the PF but geez. 😬
Originally posted by Sundipped
I know you hate the PF but geez. 😬
Originally posted by Sundipped
Faint or not. Thor wasn't able to affect it up until that point. That had to be the deciding factor.
The second encounter is when Uru becomes a factor.
Again though, it was only "faint traces" (which means barely perceptible)
Originally posted by Sundipped
Now tell me when have you/or will you ever see Thor reduced to slag?
This dude challenges Celestials and Big G with positive results for Gods sake.
😐
Originally posted by Sundipped
I agree its a plus.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Lets take what you say as truth.Why was Thor looking so dumbfounded when he missed his mark?
I didn't see the form disperse.
There's no evidence of Mjlonir even making a connection after the toss.
Notice the hammer comes out the back of the exploding PF,
heading right for the planet.
.....................................................................
Here we clearly see Mjlonir returning to Thor's hand with a trail that's attached to the planet:
Originally posted by Sundipped
Of course he'll lose but in these altercations he was still outclassed [B]easily.
And the only noticeable damage that was directly seen was after Mjolnir
absorbed some of the Force. [/B]
That aside, what do you attribute the PF not being able to kill Thor?
Mind you the PF blasted the shit out of Thor on two different occasions,
Thor survives both, and came back for more after the first time,
and I'm sure he's coming back for more again.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Not you too with this running away crap?I know you hate the PF but geez.
If you dislike what took place on panel,
and what was stated in correlation with what happened,
you have to email Marvel Comics and complain:
"Phoenix Force .. just ran away from him"
"I clipped its wings" ... "It can be bested"
Originally posted by zopzop
I know you talking to Mr. M but let me say he doesn't "hate" the PF. He's just a realist. The PF is < Odin. We know that for a fact because Marvel's top guy said it repeatedly to fans that were asking him questions about the AvX event.
I'm not following the event as closely as I should so I don't know much about who;s writing it except for Bendis. Is Brevoort writing any of it or is he just giving his opinion?
Originally posted by Mr Master
, due to Shiar blasting it across space.I have it, and I read it, what should I look for?
Another spin of the facts? 😂
Because it's quite simple.
Xorn used an EMP to kill Jean Grey,
and explode the Phoenix FOrce into billions of pieces.
yeah, except for the fact that if it was completely "destroyed"
life would cease to exist , seeing there are people around still breathing? i suggest otherwise
Originally posted by Mr Master When the hell did Phoenix "atomically" manipulated a universe?Oh, you talking about "Here Comes Tomorrow"
where Jean holds the visualization of a universe and does nothing with it
false, it was more than a visualization, the the other avatars even commented stating how manipulating so many atoms was a difficult task, even for the phoenix
and to add, she amputated the timeline, if she handn't, even after Scott's decision leading to a different future , the "here comes tomorrow" time line still would of existed as a divergent timeline
by amputating it, she completely removed it from existence
meaning that alternate reality never will exist
Originally posted by Mr Master The second that decision was changed by Jean,
Reality 15104 was altered.
indeed, but that decision did not cause the amputation or it's "non-existence", but a divergent timeline
Originally posted by Mr Master *note*The trouble homegirl had to go through just to alter an alternate future,
when there are powers that simply exercise a thought, and reality is altered.
yeah HIGHER powers, except for the the fact that this case had different circumstances
that required complete severing, rather than just existing as an alternate timeline
Originally posted by Mr MasterThere's no Jean or any host attached to the Phoenix in that scene.
hence why i said "thought"
still fragmented nonetheless
and what are you trying to turn this thread into exactly?
a phoenix hate thread?
son, i feel the phoenix is overrated at times indeed
i'd rather not deal with it, i prefer beings not amped by external sources
is it the most power cosmic entity? hell no
does it job at times?
hell yes, who doesn't?
however theres no way in hell any sky father should or would be competing with it
Originally posted by TheMaskSo the pheonix went to recreating reality to being below odin?
Wow how sad.
It's greatest feat, was destroying the substance of an alternate universe,
on two separate occasions.
Both events took place in "What If" issues,
and the PF did not destroy space-time (those alternate Eternity/Infinity)
just the contents within. (Galaxies/stars and so on)
You guys focus way too much on power/ability, and lose grip because of its low showings. Characters are driven by plot, regardless of how powerful they are.
The Phoenix Force is powerful, at greater intervals than Odin himself. Not by word of God, based on an Editor trolling Galaticst...er I mean a Fan. Hell if thats the case, Mr. Master needs to change his hierarchy on cosmics. According to Tom he is the creator of ALL THINGS!
No we dont take word of God over on panel occurrences if they are conflicting with one another. The Phoenix Force that manifest within the 4th dimension, is an abstract concept with many roles to fill out. And as an Abstract its power can scale up to universal class. Thats its power/role.
However for all its majestic strength, and Cosmic Awareness. We are talking about an Abstract that losses its sense of logic, the moment it descends from the higher dimension. Thats its character ever since its formal introduction.
The fact that the plot demands to routinely interact, with much lower life forms opens its self creates these low moments due to the nature of the plots setting.
You will not see the same kind of Jobbing in other Cosmics. The other cosmics of this order or rank, do not meddle with lower life forms like humans. In fact they choose to distance themselves. These being that exist within the 4th dimension, retain their sense of logic, and interfere when it demands its presence. This again has to do with how the character is written up, and how the plot drives it.
If you can not grasp a simple concept such as this?... then I severely doubt you have any business here KMC forums as you are more likely a grown adult struggling to understand young teens comic book.
Can Odin defeat the Phoenix Force? Possibly yes.
Is Odin more powerful than the Phoenix Force? Definitely Not.
Originally posted by "Id"Mr. Master needs to change his hierarchy on cosmics.
According to Tom he is the creator of [b]ALL THINGS!No we dont take word of God
over on panel occurrences if they are conflicting with one another. [/B]
Tom Brevoort is the Executive Editor
and the Senior Vice President of Publishing in Marvel Comics.
He gets the last word of what goes on panel, and what does not.
That aside, TOAA, is still the writer/artist of any given story,
but obviously yes, ol' Tom tells them what's approved, and what isn't,
regardless of who came up with the idea.
Just sayin ...
That aside, IMO, his word does not contradict on panel showings,
for the PF and its avatars have displayed great weakness across the ages,
in comparison to what it's been hyped up to be here at kmc by some.
Also,
the Phoenix Force is no longer the "spark" that ignites creation,
as it used to be via hyperbole, (proven by the Alien Entity on panel)
and the Phoenix is no longer in connection with Eternity's recyclability
via ending him when its time,
as it used to be via hyperbole (proven by Entropy on panel)
This ... coupled with the fact that none of that shit is even alluded to
in either of the Phoenix Force's own 2005 and 2011 updated Handbooks.
Imo, is could be that we finally have some actual perspective
on where the PF stands power-wise.
Actually, how about 'retcon?' ...
Originally posted by Mr Master
Although I never said TB's word was "God" ....Tom Brevoort is the Executive Editor
and the Senior Vice President of Publishing in Marvel Comics.He gets the last word of what goes on panel, and what does not.
That aside, TOAA, is still the writer/artist of any given story,
but obviously yes, ol' Tom tells them what's approved, and what isn't,
regardless of who came up with the idea.Just sayin ...
That aside, IMO, his word does not contradict on panel showings,
for the PF and its avatars have displayed great weakness across the ages,
in comparison to what it's been hyped up to be here at kmc by some.
Also,
the Phoenix Force is no longer the "spark" that ignites creation,
as it used to be via hyperbole, (proven by the Alien Entity on panel)
and the Phoenix is no longer in connection with Eternity's recyclability
via ending him when its time,
as it used to be via hyperbole (proven by Entropy on panel)This ... coupled with the fact that none of that shit is even alluded to
in either of the Phoenix Force's own 2005 and 2011 updated Handbooks.Imo, is could be that we finally have some actual perspective
on where the PF stands power-wise.
What you just stated, did not address what was quoted. Do you actually take Toms comment of Odin being this creator of everything without a grain of salt?
Its a simple question, that needs a simple yes or no.
Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
[B]you do realize the force was in several pieces shattered all over the universe?@ Mr. Masteralso the xorn situation was explained
im sure you've read " here comes tomorrow"and of course when separate it would be weaker as to all fragments being merged together and it being whole, holding more power
also, your postings, are you trying to prove how
how do they display the phoenixes inferiority to the sky father?atomically manipulating the universe should place her leagues above him
[/B]
What are you posting here? Your posts are so disjointe I'm not sure how to follow?
When was the Phoenix in a billion pieces and why does it matter?
If "here comes tomorrow" explains why xorns feat isn't all that impressive why don't you detail and provide scans?
And being broken vs being together are you referring simply to which scans or feats? When the shiar affected it?
Care to elaborate? I'm sure you know what you meant to say... I just don't.
Originally posted by rotiart
What are you posting here? Your posts are so disjointe I'm not sure how to follow?When was the Phoenix in a billion pieces and why does it matter?
If "here comes tomorrow" explains why xorns feat isn't all that impressive why don't you detail and provide scans?And being broken vs being together are you referring simply to which scans or feats? When the shiar affected it?
Care to elaborate? I'm sure you know what you meant to say... I just don't.
hopefully this clears the confusion up
in new x-men #150, right after jean suffered the planetary EMP, the phoenix force was apparently shattered
in which Mr.M used as an example of the phoenix's "jobbing"
in respect to the thread
what i meant to display was that despite being shattered
the force wasn't destroyed, given that if it was , life would cease
to exist. If anything, xorn didn't "kill" the phoenix, but rather jean
(human body)
and why i took Xorn's feat with a grain of salt was because if i'm not mistaken, jeans death was permitted
so she could be reborn 150 years into the future to amputate
the infected timeline to heal the future in "here comes tomorrow"
and in reference of being broken vs being whole
that was to display how the fragmented phoenix would naturally display lower showings of power due to it being "incomplete"
likewise the Shiar weaponry, which attempted to reconstruct the phoenix (an incomplete phoenix however )
Which traveled towards earth to search for Jean,which caused the events with Jean & Emma and the Cuckoos that transpired in Endsong and Warsong
im getting used to debating comics online, it's actually a new thing for me
