Honestly, it seems Tom Bs view of the Phoenix force is shared by Marvel's writers as it's filtering into AVX.
Thor clipped its wing and stated it can be bested...it was even suggested that Odin's enchantments were overcoming the PF (Thor did hurt it in Secret Avengers). That suggests that a being of Odin's class could take the force.
I don't think Marvel's hierarchy see the PF as Galactus level anymore and its certainly not being treated like that in AVX (so far).
Originally posted by deathlife
Honestly, it seems Tom Bs view of the Phoenix force is shared by Marvel's writers as it's filtering into AVX.Thor clipped its wing and stated it can be bested...it was even suggested that Odin's enchantments were overcoming the PF (Thor did hurt it in Secret Avengers). That suggests that a being of Odin's class could take the force.
I don't think Marvel's hierarchy see the PF as Galactus level anymore and its certainly not being treated like that in AVX (so far).
This is horrible reasoning.
Thor rocked Galactus with a Mjolnir shot to the head. Just because he was able to harm him in this way suggests Big G can be bested too right? Mind you Thor wasn't talking about himself being able to best the Phoenix but using your logic, the Odin Force is beyond Big G since he rocked him right? See what I'm getting at?
Whoever's saying the PF couldn't overcome Odins enchantment is outright lowballing (Tom included) because it couldn't do jack sh!t until after it absorbed a portion of the Force. And even after that, the PF flame broiled Thor again.
I don't see any skyfather taking a majority. Hell Thor performed waaaaaaaay better against a skyfather (Zeus) than he did with this entity.
This is horrible reasoning. Mind you Thor wasn't talking about himself being able to best the Phoenix but using your logic, the Odin Force is beyond Big G since he rocked him right? See what I'm getting at?
This wasn't what i said. No one said Thor could beat the Phoenix. However, Thor himself stated the PF can be bested...obviously by something far greater than him. What we are debating is if the Phoenix force is still considered above sky fathers. Personally, i don't think they are but i don't think that view is shared by Marvel hierarchy (keep in mind that Tom B is an editor on AVX)
Whoever's saying the PF couldn't overcome Odins enchantment is outright lowballing (Tom included) because it couldn't do jack sh!t until after it absorbed a portion of the Force. And even after that, the PF flame broiled Thor again.
Tom low balling the Phoenix is the whole essence of the thread. The general consensus is that the PF is far,far above sky fathers. However, Tom B has suggested that we are wrong and my point is that AVX "seems" (nothing is confirmed) to be written this way. I mean, let's be honest, who here thought Thor could harm the PF before AVX??
I don't see any skyfather taking a majority. Hell Thor performed waaaaaaaay better against a skyfather (Zeus) than he did with this entity. [/B]
Well, my thinking was that the PF was above sky father level so i'm not surprised to see Thor get turned to toast by the PF repeatedly.
Considering the fact that Brevoort doesn't believe in ABC logic , when it comes to fights between cosmics , even IF(and that's a big IF) the PF can now be overwhelmed by the Odinforce , then that in no way , takes away invalidates the dominance it has shown against Galactus in their previous encounters .
To prove my point , I'll give you an example of his reply regarding the Galactus-Odin , Celestials-Skyfathers and Galactus-Celestials comparisons :
FAN : "Hi Tom. In Thor 300, the combined power of a couple of sky fathers couldn't do serious harm to any one Celestial. Since that time, we've also witnessed Odin essentially stalemate Galacuts. How was Galactus able to destroy two Celestials in FF"
TomBrevoort 27 Mar :
"Because, as I keep saying, these situations aren't transitory. As in any other area of competition, one guy can beat another guy, who can beat another guy, who can beat the first guy. It's not math."
PS : I am new here , so I can't post a link . However , here is a snapshot of this particular interview :
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Considering the fact that Brevoort doesn't believe in ABC logic , when it comes to fights between cosmics , even IF(and that's a big IF) the PF can now be overwhelmed by the Odinforce , then that in no way , takes away invalidates the dominance it has shown against Galactus in their previous encounters .To prove my point , I'll give you an example of his reply regarding the Galactus-Odin , Celestials-Skyfathers and Galactus-Celestials comparisons :
FAN : "Hi Tom. In Thor 300, the combined power of a couple of sky fathers couldn't do serious harm to any one Celestial. Since that time, we've also witnessed Odin essentially stalemate Galacuts. How was Galactus able to destroy two Celestials in FF"
TomBrevoort 27 Mar :
"Because, as I keep saying, these situations aren't transitory. As in any other area of competition, one guy can beat another guy, who can beat another guy, who can beat the first guy. It's not math."PS : I am new here , so I can't post a link . However , here is a snapshot of this particular interview :
True.
Tom B doesn't support ABC logic at all.
Anyways, the PF is far above sky fathers..ANY sky fathers IMO.
Originally posted by deathlife
True.Tom B doesn't support ABC logic at all.
Anyways, the PF is far above sky fathers..ANY sky fathers IMO.
That depends . According to its status as an Abstract , and on panel evidence throughout the character's history , it should definitely be way above any Skyfather .
Also , since Thor has been able to hurt another skyfather-level character(don't remember his name) by summoning the storms of a thousand worlds , and at one point was able to bring Odin himself to his knees(don't remember the issue , but I do remember Zop or some other poster claiming this feat, however don't take my word for it , I might be wrong in this case) , I don't think its conclusively proven that Odinforce is above the
However , since the Executive Editor plus Senior VP of Publishing in Marvel believes this to be the case , then for now the PF has now been relegated to below skyfather-level .
Otherwise current on-panel evidence seems to suggest that it is around skyfather level , as Thor , just by trying to clip its wings is severely beaten , while the enchantment of a skyfather on an uru malet is able to absorb only very minute/faint traces of the force .
Originally posted by Mr Master
The PF and/or any of its avatars has never created, or re-created Reality.It's greatest feat, was destroying the substance of an alternate universe,
on two separate occasions.Both events took place in "What If" issues,
and the PF did not destroy space-time (those alternate Eternity/Infinity)
just the contents within. (Galaxies/stars and so on)
I have tried and tried to convince those phoenix wankers on comicvine this exact same thing . Holding a friggin orphan universe now suddenly means that Jean manipulated every aspect of the 616-universe ?! Since , in all your bouts with GS , you failed to convince him of the truth , can you try with the more dimwitted versions of him on comicvine , i.e lord_oraculous and LordOfAllHumans ?
Originally posted by zopzop
This whole AvX fiasco was nothing but crap from the very beginning. The "cosmic" threat turned out to be nothing more than a high Trans being acting the fool with a mutant teen.Pathetic Marvel, simply pathetic. 👇
And to think that idiots on comicbookresources "conclusively proved" that Hope(who was only possessing a sliver of the PF) was able to scare away an entire host of Celestials , along with mind-controlling Tiamut ! LMFAO 😆
Originally posted by deathlife
Tom low balling the Phoenix is the whole essence of the thread. The general consensus is that the PF is far,far above sky fathers. However, Tom B has suggested that we are wrong and my point is that AVX "seems" (nothing is confirmed) to be written this way.
That's the thing. There is nothing written nor any action displayed on panel to even suggest what he claims.
Originally posted by Sundipped
That's the thing. There is nothing written nor any action displayed on panel to even suggest what he claims.
The fact that he doesn't believe in ABC logic , when it comes to fight s between cosmic types , further adds ambiguity as to where the PF and Odin actually stand in the Marvel Cosmic Hierarchy .
FAN : "Hi Tom. In Thor 300, the combined power of a couple of sky fathers couldn't do serious harm to any one Celestial. Since that time, we've also witnessed Odin essentially stalemate Galacuts. How was Galactus able to destroy two Celestials in FF"
TomBrevoort 27 Mar :
"Because, as I keep saying, these situations aren't transitory. As in any other area of competition, one guy can beat another guy, who can beat another guy, who can beat the first guy. It's not math."