Well Vader was conflicted in the fight and he never used force powers... And in the Courtship of Princess Leia, Luke says Vader held back on him.
However, I do think Luke legitamely beat him in sabers. Afterall, in SotE, Vader says Luke almost defeated him and that he was the most powerful Jedi he had ever fought.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Excellent. Next concede the fact that Vader lost to Luke fair and square.
If you can prove that Vader didn't love him, sure I will. 😉
Originally posted by ares834
Well Vader was conflicted in the fight and he never used force powers... And in the Courtship of Princess Leia, Luke says Vader held back on him.
Aha.. 😛
Re: Re: Re: NJO Luke vs. Mace Windu (lightsabers only)
They then draw on the energy of their opponents dark side emanations to pump themselves further, just as their own rage does. He gets faster, stronger, and more precise when fighting dark siders.While this is part I am skeptical about but you actually made me reconsider it. I can't deny it as I know plenty of evidence myself about feeding on emotions of others. For example, Bane killed someone's children and fed on father's grief to heal some sort of illness (didn't read the book). It's just my perception of it is different.
Thats what I understand of it, at least.
In short I agree that Windu is better against darksiders but only in terms of having more physical strength and stamina. But not precision and speed, for them I give credit to his state of mind, the clarity and self-control that Vaapad gives Windu in general, which will work equally good against lightsiders.
Originally posted by dgeoro_scattere
He did? Where?
A few years back, I needed a Star Wars fix badly, and actually started reading the Clone Wars comics..
They aren't bad..
It's in one of them. Anakin, an Anzati Jedi Master whose name escapes me at the moment, and Mace Windu are resting before a battle, and Mace challenges Anakin to a rough and tumble sparring-match.
The Anzati Jedi Master had bowed out gracefully, due to his injuries, but Anakin was feeling competitive, and he and Mace got into a rough skirmish with each other.
Originally posted by ares834Vader "held back" in that his conflict made him cautious of Luke's attempts to confuse him with accusations of caring and goodness. By the time the fight reached the point where Luke decisively overwhelmed Vader, Vader had regained his confidence and Luke's mind was awash in doubt and fear. At no point in the narrative or the dialogue (from either Luke's or Vader's perspective) is it even insinuated that Vader was holding back. Luke kicked his ass (by drawing on rage) fair and square.
Well Vader was conflicted in the fight and he never used force powers... And in the Courtship of Princess Leia, Luke says Vader held back on him.However, I do think Luke legitamely beat him in sabers. Afterall, in SotE, Vader says Luke almost defeated him and that he was the most powerful Jedi he had ever fought.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Vader "held back" in that his conflict made him cautious of Luke's attempts to confuse him with accusations of caring and goodness. By the time the fight reached the point where Luke decisively overwhelmed Vader, Vader had regained his confidence and Luke's mind was awash in doubt and fear. At no point in the narrative or the dialogue (from either Luke's or Vader's perspective) is it even insinuated that Vader was holding back. Luke kicked his ass (by drawing on rage) fair and square.
If Vader hadn't held back at any point in that fight, Luke would be dead.
Remember, Vader, not holding back = TFU Vader.
Vader, even before coming face to face with Luke, didn't want to hurt or kill him. That's why when he discussed Luke's fate with the Emperor on one of the Star Destroyers, Vader said that he wanted Luke to come to him, and then the Emporer said, ( In Palpatine voice) "Lord Vader, I wonder if your feelings in this matter are clear..?"
Vader, from the end of ESB onward, didn't want to really hurt or kill Luke - in fact, you could tell that Vader really loved Luke.
A full-force Vader would have made deadly, un-prejudiced strikes with a lightsaber, and used his TK abilities to hurl Luke against the bulkheads, etc.
Though, this is somewhat obvious..
Or he held back as he didn't want to harm Luke that badly as he clearly cares about his son.
"Vader had sought only to turn him, had kept Luke alive. Yet Luke had no illusions that Gethzerion would be so lenient."
"Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me."
Both from Courtship. As for RotJ, I can recall nothing confirms nor denies that Vader was holding back.
Originally posted by ares834
Or he held back as he didn't want to harm Luke that badly as he clearly cares about his son."Vader had sought only to turn him, had kept Luke alive. Yet Luke had no illusions that Gethzerion would be so lenient."
"Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me."
Both from Courtship. As for RotJ, I can recall nothing confirms nor denies that Vader was holding back.
Well, that pretty much settles it. 🙂
Originally posted by ares834Is that all from Luke's perspective? Cuz the RotJ novelization gives us both his and Vader's. It's a pretty solid confirmation that Vader wasn't holding back.
Or he held back as he didn't want to harm Luke that badly as he clearly cares about his son."Vader had sought only to turn him, had kept Luke alive. Yet Luke had no illusions that Gethzerion would be so lenient."
"Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
So this is how it would have been, if Vader had tried to kill me."
Both from Courtship. As for RotJ, I can recall nothing confirms nor denies that Vader was holding back.
Originally posted by BattlemasterPerhaps you're new to the clusterf*ck of inconsistencies in Star Wars canon. Needless to say, it's irreconcilable.
If Vader hadn't held back at any point in that fight, Luke would be dead.Remember, Vader, not holding back = TFU Vader.
Vader, even before coming face to face with Luke, didn't want to hurt or kill him. That's why when he discussed Luke's fate with the Emperor on one of the Star Destroyers, Vader said that he wanted Luke to come to him, and then the Emporer said, ( In Palpatine voice) "Lord Vader, I wonder if your feelings in this matter are clear..?"
Vader, from the end of ESB onward, didn't want to really hurt or kill Luke - in fact, you could tell that Vader really loved Luke.
A full-force Vader would have made deadly, un-prejudiced strikes with a lightsaber, and used his TK abilities to hurl Luke against the bulkheads, etc.
Though, this is somewhat obvious..
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Perhaps you're new to the clusterf*ck of inconsistencies in Star Wars canon. Needless to say, it's irreconcilable.
Nah, not really. 😛
Maybe Luke was lying while Gethzerion was killing him, though?
"So this is what it would have been like, if Vader hadn't held back.."
"No wait...I'm lying to myself..Vader wasn't holding back...lol'z.."
😆