Over the course of the Post-Crisis period, and continuing through the New 52, DC slowly uncoupled Captain Marvel from Superman in terms of being physical clones, further trying to differentiate them by playing up the lightning aspect of the Shazam power holders.
I think these days that Shazam and WW are close physically, but WW might have an edge. Combined with her skills, I think she has the overall advantage. But it's close. They are on the same tier.
Originally posted by abhilegendUmm, no? She barely even left the ground the dude was standing on, let alone fly into the sky. WW basically jumped over the guy in a circle
Why? The particles weren't FTL, they were teleported from the end of the universe.https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Wonder-Woman-1987/Issue-194?id=7150
She was outflying the particles by flying into near orbit, not even going into space.
Not only is Wonder Woman faster than Billy, but Superman says out of his own mouth, that he and WW are evenly matched in RAW Might.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652662-3548663405-23439.jpg
Batman says that Superman is the only force on Earth that can restrain Wonder Woman. Not Captain Marvel, Superman himself.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652664-8177257635-23439.jpg
Green Lantern's ring scans and tells him power levels. He says Wonder Woman operates in Superman's Hood. The ring is saying she's in Superman's POWER level.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652665-7923022448-23439.jpg
When Titus takes out Superman and Wonder Woman, he says the MIGHTIEST of the League have fallen.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652667-6820656270-23439.jpg
I'm sure there's statements about Captain Marvel being equal to Superman, but Wonder Woman has more. Billy would get wrecked by a serious Diana, he's below her
Originally posted by XLR87T3
Billy would get wrecked by a serious Diana, he's below her
Now onto speed:
https://i.imgur.com/4Rltynz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GvywUIJ.jpg
Seems Billy is faster 👆
Originally posted by zopzopHm. I don't think she's done better than Billy physically against Superman, to whom she always comes across as noticeably inferior. Then again, she's also faced the types of Superman that Billy hasn't [i.e. Sacrifice Superman, DD Superman, both who came across as vastly superior physically] but at the same time, even the calm Superman has handled her easily [Sacrifice, League of One]. By contrast, Shazam's portrayals have shown him as getting beat but putting up an evenish fight against Eclipso Superman [twice], but getting beat by a serious Superman [Convergence. Yes, it's Flashpoint Captain Marvel, but we both know it's the same thing], and his peer Black Adam getting crushed by a non-magic weakened Superman [i.e. Ultraman].
Yup, I've been saying this for years. In terms of physical stats she easily matches or exceeds him, then you throw in her gear and it's game over. Not to mention she's done better vs Superman than Billy has and well...you get the picture.
I think she'd win based on pure overall formidability, but physically I don't think she "easily matches or exceeds him". It depends how much they play her "stronger than Hercules" stuff, but given she's the daughter of Zeus, I don't think her powerset is Shazam'd anymore, to say she's "stronger than Hercules, faster than Hermes" etc.
I think he'll settle around Wonder Woman physically, but with wizardly stuff, the same way she is weapony stuff, while Superman is the superior one with the 'punching you out' stuff. Johns is, imo, purposely trying to differentiate him from Superman by making him more 'a master of all magical trades'.
"[Convergence. Yes, it's Flashpoint Captain Marvel, but we both know it's the same thing], and his peer Black Adam getting crushed by a non-magic weakened Superman [i.e. Ultraman]."
With decades of DIRECT or even indirect comparison/fights, you choose to reference an alternate reality version of Captain Marvel? Imagine arbitrarily deciding that a character who was not the same thing conceptually and almost certainly in practice (7 kids turned into CM and alternate reality characters that are especially gory, not intended for accuracy and treated as temporarily allow for a lot more inconsistency).
Kingdom Come Superman vs. CM would be a much more accurate reference imo.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
"[Convergence. Yes, it's Flashpoint Captain Marvel, but we both know it's the same thing], and his peer Black Adam getting crushed by a non-magic weakened Superman [i.e. Ultraman]."With decades of DIRECT or even indirect comparison/fights, you choose to reference an alternate reality version of Captain Marvel? Imagine arbitrarily deciding that a character who was not the same thing conceptually and almost certainly in practice (7 kids turned into CM and alternate reality characters that are especially gory, not intended for accuracy and treated as temporarily allow for a lot more inconsistency).
Kingdom Come Superman vs. CM would be a much more accurate reference imo.
Originally posted by zopzopOn top of that, Diana has beaten the s*** out of Hercules, the same guy who gives Captain Marvep his strength.
Yup, I've been saying this for years. In terms of physical stats she easily matches or exceeds him, then you throw in her gear and it's game over. Not to mention she's done better vs Superman than Billy has and well...you get the picture.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111337052/6652671-rsz_1ioqitaj.jpg
Originally posted by abhilegend
Jurgens had Superman say Captain Thunder reminded him of someone he knew back home. That's clear indication of how he was intended to be shown.
Captain Thunder, an alternate reality version of CM from a temporary timeline where he’s created by 7 children =/= Captain Marvel.
What is it about Superman fans and hypocrisy? The mf doesn’t even have the same name.
There’s over a 5 decades of direct and indirect fights but the dynamic duo resort to this garbage.
No point discussing this. I could quote you from different threads contradicting yourself but I’ll just point you to the rules on the front page.
Dan Jurgens also wrote this scene:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3826184-superman+%23102+-+vs+superman+1.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3826185-superman+%23102+-+vs+superman+2.png
It’s canon and a far better representation. Dan Jurgen’s also went on record saying that while most think CM=Superman, he thinks Superman is slightly stronger but CM has magic, but he phrased it in a way that was basically underwritten by personal preference.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Now onto speed:https://i.imgur.com/4Rltynz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GvywUIJ.jpgSeems Billy is faster 👆
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3826469-catch+him.png
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain Thunder, an alternate reality version of CM from a temporary timeline where he’s created by 7 children =/= Captain Marvel.What is it about Superman fans and hypocrisy? The mf doesn’t even have the same name.
There’s over a 5 decades of direct and indirect fights but the dynamic duo resort to this garbage.
No point discussing this. I could quote you from different threads contradicting yourself but I’ll just point you to the rules on the front page.
Dan Jurgens also wrote this scene:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3826184-superman+%23102+-+vs+superman+1.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3826185-superman+%23102+-+vs+superman+2.pngIt’s canon and a far better representation. Dan Jurgen’s also went on record saying that while most think CM=Superman, he thinks Superman is slightly stronger but CM has magic, but he phrased it in a way that was basically underwritten by personal preference.
What would be the purpose of such a statement?
Also Jurgens Superman on everyday and Jurgens Superman trying to save Lois are two different beasts.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3826469-catch+him.png
Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman directly said Thunder had a counterpart on his world.What would be the purpose of such a statement?
Also Jurgens Superman on everyday and Jurgens Superman trying to save Lois are two different beasts.
Justice? Seriously?
At least the alt versions he's using are named the same.....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85👆
At least the alt versions he's using are named the same.....
It's obviously more accurate if they have the same name but are completely different out-of-continuity versions, than if they are the in-continuity Superman and Flashpoint [i.e. same Universe but altered history] Captain Marvel.
Oh, wait..
