According to the ROTS novel Anakin had a moment of "Pristine Clarity". In that moment he defeated Count Dooku the second he "decided" to.
So that's why we say Anakin was "In the Zone.."
Anyway he was already battering Dooku before his moment of clarity.
So imagine someone with the Power to Batter Count frigging Dooku, suddenly has an "In the Zone" moment. And the conclusion is he must have been pretty frigging Uber in that state.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERWell you could argue that dooku has passed his best, and is getting quite old and tired.
So someone who can kick the crud out of Count Dooku is just gna be easy pickings for Yoda? Really?
Hmm idk about this "in the zone" status, because im pretty sure he had his mind set on killing kenobi, and still failed.
Its funny Kenobi > anakin > dooku > kenobi
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You already have your response:
Spending the majority of 8 centuries on his ass, won't help him improve much - on the other hand, sharpening skills gathered during those stagnant 8 centuries, during the first "Full scale galactic war fought in 1,000 years" as per Palpatine, would accordingly give him a significant increase, as it did the others.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No rebuttal then obviously.
I was just feeling sorry for you. 🙂
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Urm what?
"Urm" exactly. Couldn't find it, hmm? Not very impressive. 🙄
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Your the one claiming there's a huge difference between them in a Pure fencing contest.I have proof that he probably would be in Sidious's league in Sabers (or close to it) considering the fight he gave Yoda, and the battering Yoda gave Sidious (as per the script).
Yeah - except close doesn't cut it - if Dooku thought he could defeat Sidious in a lightsaber duel, the same way Mace did, guess what?
He would have fought Sidious to kill him and crush the Sith.
But, he didn't. Why?
Because he knew he couldn't.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And since when do Dooku's own thoughts mean shit?? He thinks he's Yoda's equal and he thinks he has a shot at beating Yoda,
Gee, hmm, wonder why he lured him to that particular planet in the first place?
If Sidious and Dooku dueled on Vjun, in contrast, then Sidious would also get amped by the Dark Side, and Dooku would be the one at a disadvantage.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Neither Dooku's fears nor your beliefs in his fears count for anything.
But hey if we're going by thoughts I have a much more reliable one for you which applies directly to Saber fighting. It's Yoda's thoughts in Dark Rendezvous where he believes that on Neutral Ground Dooku and Mace Windu are equal in Saber fighting. You know the same Windu who beat Sidious.
"The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground"
- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Yoda is capable of misjudging things.
"Failed have I."
Yoda exclaimed this after failing to realize the broad scheme of things and not just failing to kill Sidious.
Even Sidious pointed out how Yoda had been blinded by his own arrogance - before hitting with a blast (that suprised Yoda) that launched him into a wall and knocked him out cold.
Yoda considers Prime Mace to be below Dooku - the same Dooku who was killed by Zonakin - and the same Mace who was able to defeat Sidious.
Going by Yoda's logic, then Anakin should be able to defeat Sidious, too.
Except Yoda's own judgements (rational, as you would put it) are flawed and not perfect.
Whereas Dooku's fears - turned out to be right on the money.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So you believe Count Dooku's fears, whilst I'll believe Yoda's more rational thoughts. You believe in your own conclusions whilst I'll believe On-Screen showings and quotes relating directly to Saber combat.
Re-read the previous post, and keep reading until the concept sinks in.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
As you can see I have plenty of proof to support my stance, whilst you have nothing but Dooku's "fears," your own opinions and speculation.I hardly needed a few days to show that
Originally posted by RookwoodYeah - except close doesn't cut it - if Dooku thought he could defeat Sidious in a lightsaber duel, the same way Mace did, guess what? He would have fought Sidious to kill him and crush the Sith.
But, he didn't. Why?
Because he knew he couldn't.
Unless he's actually sparred Sparred Sidious his thoughts really don't mean anything, because they're just made up thoughts which have been manipulated by Sidious.
Originally posted by Rookwood
Yoda is capable of misjudging things."Failed have I."
Yoda exclaimed this after failing to realize the broad scheme of things and not just failing to kill Sidious.
Even Sidious pointed out how Yoda had been blinded by his own arrogance - before hitting with a blast (that suprised Yoda) that launched him into a wall and knocked him out cold.
Except Yoda's own judgements (rational, as you would put it) are flawed and not perfect.
Whereas Dooku's fears - turned out to be right on the money.
LOL So your argument is that Yoda's opinion of sword fighting abilities in people he's worked with, taught, watched for years and fought/sparred with is Fallible....
But Dooku's fears are fact???!!
Hahaha Your argument sucks so bad!
I actually do think Sidious would beat Dooku in Sabers but your argument to prove it just sucks!
And the whole premise on which you've started this debate is flawed. You claim Dooku and Yoda were equal in AOTC. FALSE! The novel and script both make it clear Yoda was beating Dooku in Sabers. That's the reason Dooku was the one who ran.
Originally posted by Rookwood
Yoda considers Prime Mace to be below Dooku - the same Dooku who was killed by Zonakin - and the same Mace who was able to defeat Sidious. Going by Yoda's logic, then Anakin should be able to defeat Sidious, too.
Yoda considers Dooku and Mace may be on par with each other.
That doesn't contradict Mace beating Sidious, as Mace's Vapaad is the perfect form to battle Sidious.
Also how do you know ROTS Anakin couldn't match or beat Sidious in Sabers?? And especially with Zonakin chances are he probably would beat Sidious in a Saber match.
Originally posted by Rookwood
"The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground"
- [B]Yoda: Dark RendezvousYoda is capable of misjudging things. [/B]
Well this is o8vious 8ecause Yoda then goes on to force Dooku to flee on a planet that gives him an advantage. So that's o8vious 8ullshit.
Originally posted by mnat801
what is zonakin?
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
According to the ROTS novel Anakin had a moment of "Pristine Clarity". In that moment he defeated Count Dooku the second he "decided" to.So that's why we say Anakin was "In the Zone.."
Originally posted by mnat801
Hmm idk about this "in the zone" status, because im pretty sure he had his mind set on killing kenobi, and still failed.
Power gives you an answer, but i suspect, that You still don't get it. So:
His head has been filled with the smoke from his smotheredheart for far too long; it has been the thunder that darkens hismind. On Aargonar, on Jabiim, in the Tusken camp on Tatooine,that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter; but herenow, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinitesterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terrorand the rage areout there, in the fight instead of in his head, andAnakin's mind is clear as
a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
And then, he decides, to cut off Dooku's hands.
When he fights Obi-Wan, his mind was far from pristine clarity, it was more like clouded, which already made him a mindless machine of slaughter.
That's the difference.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Anyway he was already battering Dooku before his moment of clarity.
And here i must disagree with you Power. We all know, that in the book, at the end of the fight, Dooku was in terrible condition. Also, before that, Dooku was unable to fight both, Anakin and Obi-Wan, co he use... um... something like... hit and run strategy? Still it's noncanon, coz we know - from the movie - that he was able to fight them both, he successfully blocks their sabers in cross (I've hope that You can understand me here, still my english is quite poor). In fact in cross, he pushed their swords, and was able to kick Skywalker, and use TK on Kenobi.
After that, he was still able to easily blocks Anakin's strikes. Then he do the same, like Vader did in ROTJ - he provokes Anakin.
It wasn't Dun Moch (not at all), he wants Anakin angry.
I give You some quotes:
I sense great fear in you. You are consumed by it.Hero With No Fear, indeed. You're afraud, Skywalker. You arenothing but a posturing child. - from book
Don't fear what you're feeling, Anakin,use it!" he barked in Palpatine's voice. "Call upon your fury.
Focus it, and he cannot stand against you.Rage is your weapon. Strike now!Strike! Killhim - book
I sense great fear in you, Skywalker. You have hate. You have anger. But you don't use them. - movie.
Ok, Dooku's words in the movie, looks more similar to Palpatine's. It sounds like: you haven't chance, Only Your Hatred Can Destroy Me
And then, and olny then, Anakin is able to find any advantage over Dooku. And this advantage let him won. It's not because Dooku is tired - this fight was short, he probably wasn't to tired. (movie version was short, I mean)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yoda considers Dooku and Mace may be on par with each other.
With a swords, not in all-out. He said, that Dooku is the best, because he is the strongest, wisest, and most learned in the ways of the force.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The novelization is just as canon as the film.
It is, until it interfere with film. If i ask, who was the first Palpatine victim: Kolar or Tinn? It's obvious, that Kolar.
Originally posted by mnat801
Novels do exaggerate though, and this thread is about ROTS anakin, not zonakin.
Anakin from ROTS, was zoanakin, when he confronts Cound Dooku. So it may be considering as the same.
Originally posted by mnat801
Anakin cant be in the zone 24/7 though. you said it yourself, ROTS anakin wasnt in the zone against kenobi. therefore we cannot assume that is zonekin
Yeah, I agree here. It's that why I said may. But on the other hand, when I see ROTS Anakin, I suspect, that author is about Anakin's strongest shape (zoanakin i mean).