Thing is we are told he just drops it due to Yoda's ferocious assault:YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA.
Thank you, DP. Now I see that Yoda actually did not disarm him. Sidious lost his footing and dropped lightsaber himself.
I said that Yoda had mobility advantage on those platforms and it feels nice to find out it was the exact reason why Sidious turned it into a Force contest.
It's described as a ferocious assault from Yoda that causes Sidious to lose his lightsaber, so yes it can.
No it can't, especially since Sidious dropped lightsaber himself because of unfair positional disadvantage.
You said he couldn't outskill her.
Yes, because skill difference was too small. Still, he forced her to fight defencivelly, which is actually harder to do against opponent with two sabers and as DP pointed out is against her habit.
Is this even canon?
And Sidious didn't even try, did he? He just stood there didn't he?
It is canon, it comes from a novel and it is mentioned in Plagueis novel as well.
no
Yes. 🙂
So Kenobi is above Anakin in sabers?? I doubt it.
When did I say that? And why it needs to be either way? Can't they just be on parr?
Notice that I never said that Anakin is above Dooku in fencing either despite him outskilling Dooku twice.
In CW Anakin disarmed Dooku with a kick. Same thing he did to Kenobi. He kicked him ones but Kenobi's Ataru skill triggered and he backflipped. Then Anakin kicked again, this time Kenobi got knocked off feet and got disarmed as well like Dooku, however, Kenobi quickly got back onto feet and retalated with a kick of his own right into the face.
In RotS Anakin disarmed Dooku with grappling technique. He grappled Kenobi as well and nearly killed him with his own lightsaber, however, Kenobi is good at grappling as well and found way to counter it.
Anakin couldn't outskill either Dooku or Kenobi in pure fencing, they are both among the most exceptionally skilled fencers from SW. However, Kenobi's better stamina, durability and unarmed combat skills played key role in defeating Anakin.
[/quote]He already did it what, once, twice in ROTS?[/QUOTE] [/quote]
Very funny. We are arguing fencing and you are mentioning how Dooku handled Kenobi with TK, which is clearly not Kenobi's strongest side. And that's was my original point that Dooku can handle any of them because of his superior Force mastery.
Since you mentioned this, do you mind explaining how you reached the conclusion that Fisto is not on Kenobi's level? Most people base this opinion on Kenobi's fights against Maul&Savage and Anakin, opponents whom Fisto has never even faced.
Sure. How many times Fisto fought real darksiders? His most experience comes from sparring with other Jedi. Kenobi has background of fighting various real Sith. On first meeting Maul in CW Kenobi got disarmed by Opress and then got stomped by Maul. He learned his lesson and next time was ready to face both of them alone. Experience is a huge difference. You need to be emotionally ready to face likes of Ventress, Maul Opress, Dooku or Sidious. Fisto never gone through any trials that would prepare him to face someone like Sidious.
The best way we can compare Kenobi and Fisto, is by their perfomances against Grievous.
No, it's not the best way.
First, Fisto employed better tactics. At first he started hiding in fog and taunting him. Grievous got provoked and in attempt to catch him made silly attack overextending himself as well as putting himself off balance and Fisto took advantage of that mistake. Second, Jarkai makes it easier to deal with multiple sabers and Fisto needed to deal only with three sabers from that point on. 2 vs 3 sabers will never be as impresive as Ventress's 2 vs 4 or Kenobi's 1 vs 4
But what you really fail to consider is their style difference. Kebobi will never be driving back with ovrwhelming attacks even the most embarassing fencer becase his style is all about defence.
Now lets compare their defence skills. A few strokes of Sidious was enough to kill Fisto. In comparison even enraged Anakin couldn't overwhelm Kenobi's defences after probably the longest saber fight in entire EU. If you think that Fisto could last against Anakin even half as long as Dooku (not even comparing to Kenobi), then you really need to open your eyes.
Moreover, fending off two opponents of Maul and Opress level is much harder than any single opponent, EVEN IF it is Sidious.
Kenobi's defence >>>>>>>>>>Fisto's.
Dooku never stalemated Yoda, he merely lasted a little over 30 seconds against him before he felt the need to flee. I believe the ATOC novel describes how much of a struggle it was for Dooku to defend against Yoda's blows (I'll look the passage up later). Even When Dooku's powers were boosted on Vjun, he still couldn't stalemate Yoda. Just because Yoda never blitzed or disarm Dooku in seconds, doesn't mean they were stalemated.
In those 30 seconds Dooku didn't do a
single step backward, blocked attacks even with one hand and was attacking more than defending. Moreover, prior to that he spent energy fighting Kenobi and Anakin, wasted even more energy to tear pieces of stone out of sealing and on top of that his reserves are nowhere as high as Yoda's.
In comparison Anakin in CW in less than 30 seconds was driving "fresh" Dooku back, forced him to use Force attacks and still put him on his ass. Yoda never outskilled Dooku in any way, Dooku stalemated him on two occasions and ran away simply because his Force reserves expired.
How about we just keep it simple. Give me a saber feat from Dooku that approaches Sidious's. It shouldn't be too hard to do since Dooku has more saber feats than Palpatine does as of ROTS.
Easy. Dooku never dropped his lightsaber in both fights with Yoda. Same cannot be said about Sidious' single fight. 😉
Luke and Leia had some sort of mental connection going on at that time, which allowed Luke to break free from the dark side's hold on him, and possibly helped Luke to unlock hidden reserves of his potential. Him and Palpatine were both fighting so fast that Leia couldn't even see them. Luke at that point in time would dominate Dooku in a saber match.
Oh now you talk about emotional state.
In first fight with Sidious Luke tried to win by embrassing knowledge he gained from Sidious within couple of days instead of knowledge he gained throughout his over decade experience. Yes, I intentionally lowballed Luke. It's a common misconception that to reach top performance in sabers fighter needs to be master in one or several styles, self- learning can be as effective. Luke at that point is already exceptionally skilled combatant, long prior to DE he already outdueled Lumya, who he couldn't outduel even 30 years later. Same way darkside Marek got stomped by Sidious but lightside Marek stalemated him, emotions are very important. Sidious' strongest advantage is establishing emotional dominance over opponents. Because of that he could stomp anyone, even darkside Marek and Luke so casually.
So how about emotions of those masters?
Among Masters Windu was the only one who didn't fear darkside. They couldn't reflect fury back to its source like him, maybe they just got paralyzed by it?
As for fighting faster than eye could see you need to get on with the fact that it's all just a metaphora. Jedi couldn't blitz even non-sensitive Yuuzhan Vong. Even Luke couldn't blitz a single Vong. Mandalorians could handle Vong in physical combat even more effectively than Jedi. Jaina couldn't blitz a Mandalorian. Kenobi couldn't blitz Mandalorians either. There is no such thing as speed blitz in SW, it's all about skill, anticipation of danger and emotions. Get over it.
Palpatine's lowest lightsaber showings probably beats Dooku's highest.
You are still ignorant. Opress casually handled Dooku, Opress and Kenobi. Neither of those characters ever demonstrated stomping any top quality characters like that. Does it mean that Opress is far above them? Not at all.
You make a horrible comparison, and then you have the nerve to lecture on logic. lol
I gave horrible comparison to your horrible and unsupported assumptions.
I did sword fighting in real life and I can tell you that hands and wrists are by far the easiest targets to strike as they are much closer to you than any other body parts. In Yoda's case because of his small size and short reach hands are probably the only possible targets he could effectively attack.
Just quit assuming that Yoda held back. He didn't need to hold back to defeat Dooku without killing him. Anakin didn't need to hold back to chop Dooku's wrist without killing him. Windu didn't need to hold back to disarm Sidious without even hurting him.
Also, I am arguing here that Yoda couldn't disarm Sidious in normal circumstances. Be thankful for that. 😄