Re: Surfer isn't playing
Originally posted by carver9
Let's say Surfer was put in the same mindset as Superman was during OWAW. Isn't passive and is willing to kill to get the job done along with using his abilities at its core. What Herald or below could stop him?
It'd be really nice if someone created a chart that explains all this otherwise undecipherable forum jargon.
I know of Galactus, who sends powerful, speedy "scouts" ahead of him before he arrives to destroy an entire Earth-sized world. These scouts "herald" (i.e. "announce"😉 his arrival, thus they are called "Heralds of Galactus".
So that's where your "Herald" term comes from.
The most commonly known heralds are probably
1) Firelord
and
2) Silver Surfer.
Flight, superstrength, great durability, great resistance to temperature extremes, great speed, high level energy blasts, ability to control and direct certain forms of energy.
In practical terms, then, Heralds are ... Superman.
He is called by a different name.
He wears a different outfit.
He does a different job.
Maybe he's coming down with a cold and thus a little weaker than normal.
Maybe he's taken steroids and gotten stronger.
But on the basic level it's Superman.
You can place any garden variety Kryptonian in a "herald" story as a result, make 2 adjustments, and you're good to go.
But what's above this level?
What's below?
Would Superboy Prime be considered Herald?
Pre-Crisis Supergirl of Earth One?
Mongul? Validus?
A thread that has a general chart of these sorts of classifications would be helpful.
Anyway, I'm assuming people with exactly one power would generally be considered Herald Class or below, with the possible exception of people like Molecule Man, who can basically do anything they want.
In which case my answer would be any Speed-Force possessing Flash.
Give him a detailed briefing of what the fight rules are, what the goals and stakes are, and ring the bell.
If the fight's on any sort of terra firma, Flash should automatically win 6 of 10 battles.
When it comes to Heralds, IMO, you would basically need to have a wide variety of powers, not just strength, etc... Surfer is Superman with a thousand more powers but looking through forums, the word Heralds are being thrown around losely. I argued this a while back but people have different opinions on the matter but it seems to work and categorize these hero's, so I don't see an issue with it.
Originally posted by carver9That's what they say about Martian Manhunter, too. But when shit hits the fan, he is the one screaming in pain, along with the other 'Superman and more' characters in the background, while Superman is the frontline.
Surfer is Superman with a thousand more powers
Just because he has some of Superman's powers, doesn't mean that he has has them at the same level. Same as Martian Manhunter. In his area, Superman is the shit - and just because Surfer is more versatile, doesn't mean he is more powerful, quite far from it.
Originally posted by Endless MikeIn the real world, "DC portrays Superman as superior to J'onn because they like him more" isn't a counter argument to "Superman is superior to J'onn because DC shows it". They're the ones who created and published both of the characters, and who defined and will define their abilities and formidability, for their whole existence.
J'onn jobs to Superman all the time just because he's DC's favorite. In a non-PIS, non-jobbing bloodlusted battle I'd give the nod to J'onn over Kal 7/10 (3 wins for Kal due to heat vision)
It's a butthurt rationalization that means nothing.
Originally posted by pym-ftwThey aren't shown to be near-physical equals, at all. Superman has physically outperformed him, grossly, repeatedly, and to a significant degree.
^or minus fighting each other they are shown to be near physical equals, MM's martian vision<Heat vision but all his other powers should give him the win
But you'd have to read comics to know that, so that's probably where the difficulty comes.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaIt's because DC is written by racists. They don't want their "White Messiah" losing to a "non-white" Martian. Heat vision or not if J'onn wanted Superman's head it should be his for the taking.
In the real world, "DC portrays Superman as superior to J'onn because they like him more" isn't a counter argument to "Superman is superior to J'onn because DC shows it". They're the ones who created and published both of the characters, and who defined and will define their abilities and formidability, for their whole existence.It's a butthurt rationalization that means nothing.
Originally posted by Philosophía
In the real world, "DC portrays Superman as superior to J'onn because they like him more" isn't a counter argument to "Superman is superior to J'onn because DC shows it". They're the ones who created and published both of the characters, and who defined and will define their abilities and formidability, for their whole existence.It's a butthurt rationalization that means nothing.
Superman himself has admitted that J'onn is stronger than him. You might as well argue that Cap > Hulk because Marvel writes him winning sometimes.