Originally posted by ODG
^ Could be seen both ways, I think. Either way, somehow Surfer locked the Oldpower away from Skaar.
Surfer did seal away the old power at the end, after the beat down. But I didn't see any panels or narrations showing Surfer absorbing the old power and using it to beat Skaar. The way I saw it was, Surfer look off the gloves when he realized Skaar was going to destroy the planet, and plain overpowered him. Then he sealed his power away.
Originally posted by vince_slice
There's nothing on panel that supports what you just said. Where does it say or show Surfer absorbing the old power? Surfer wasn't glowing green either, that's blue from his own power cosmic.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Lol Sorrow. Typical lying Hulk fans
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Surfer is clearly losing initially and once he connects with Skaar he suddenly beats him down.
Surfer suddenly beats him down because he got serious once he realized what Skaar was going to do. Is it hard to believe that Surfer beat Skaar H2H with his own power?
He then goes on to manipulate the ground Old Power style and seal it off inside the planet.
Last time I checked Surfer can't manifest the Old Power on a whim so he must have drained it from Skaar.
Also Skaar only realizes he can't use the old power after the beat down. If Surfer had "stolen" the old power and used it against Skaar, you would think Skaar would realize just before, or during the beat down. But that's not the case.
Originally posted by vince_sliceThat's not necessarily dispositive of Surfer stealing the Oldpower. There are many times when people only realize too late that their power's been stolen.
Also Skaar only realizes he can't use the old power after the beat down. If Surfer had "stolen" the old power and used it against Skaar, you would think Skaar would realize just before, or during the beat down. But that's not the case.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftI would put Black Adam there too, in 52 he beat Martian Manhunter to an inch of his life.
everyone knows Billy is the only Supes level hero character that is consistently on his level. Everyone else has faltered and is really a full tier below him.Majestic I guess too, but not WW or MM
Black Adam, Orion Captain Marvel, Majestic are the only consistent superman level heralds.
Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and everyone else is beneath them I would put thor, silver surfer, brb beneath them as well
Originally posted by ODG
That's not necessarily dispositive of Surfer stealing the Oldpower. There are many times when people only realize too late that their power's been stolen.
Which scan depicts Surfer actually stealing the old power from Skaar before the beat down?
Originally posted by vince_sliceOr unless he's getting the p1ss beaten out of him. Which is what happened.
The amp Skaar got was pretty massive e.g., the power to destroy the planet. It also gave him the ability to sense or "hear" people's anguish across the globe. If he did get it stolen before he got beat down, then he should've noticed, unless he's slow in the head.
Originally posted by vince_slicePower being stolen happens all the time in fights. Speaking of which, Surfer had his own power drained and used against him by Quasar without Surfer noticing. And Surfer has Cosmic Awareness.
Either that or Surfer is super sneaky and fast, to the point where he could steal a massive amount of power without Skaar noticing right away. This is assuming Surfer stole his powers before the beat down, which I think didn't happen. Surfer sealed away Skaar's power after he knocked him down.Which scan depicts Surfer actually stealing the old power from Skaar before the beat down?
I'm just saying, there really isn't anything dispositive about Skaar not noticing/screaming about it happening until it was too late.
Originally posted by ODG
Or unless he's getting the p1ss beaten out of him. Which is what happened.
Power being stolen happens all the time in fights. Speaking of which, Surfer had his own power drained and used against him by Quasar without Surfer noticing. And Surfer has Cosmic Awareness.
I'm just saying, there really isn't anything dispositive about Skaar not noticing/screaming about it happening until it was too late.
Looks like Surfer just got offended that Skaar was about to destroy the planet that he lost it and punched Skaar with the fury of The Fist. If he had enough energy after sealing the planet to make his dick viewable, I've no doubts he would have jizzed up Skaar's nose for that shit.
Skaar was afterall still glowing until Surfer sealed up the Old Power.
Originally posted by vince_sliceOnly if you're suggesting that it can't possibly have happened.
Are you suggesting Surfer drained Skaar's old power while he was beating him down?Was all of Surfer's powers stolen to the point where he couldn't use his powers any more? Because that's what happened to Skaar, he lost his old power completely. I can understand not noticing some of your power stolen, but not noticing all of it being gone? That's a little harder to believe.
Probably, but I still don't see why we'd assume Surfer stole the old power (before the beat down) in the first place without it being implied by the art or narrative. Its an unnecessary assumption, unless I'm missing something in the scans?
No, but my example was meant to address your different point. If you want to move the goalposts, I have another example. Doom stole Galactus' power. Galactus said you can't do that, "I am Omega, Alpha, blahblah." Doom straight-up interrupted his schpeal and said, "B1tch, please. I already did."
It's no more an unnecessary assumption than assuming Skaar's late reaction as proof that Surfer did no such thing. That's the only point I was making. It's arguable Surfer never drained it from Skaar. It's arguable that he did. And Skaar's late reaction isn't necessarily dispositive of anything.
Originally posted by ODG
Only if you're suggesting that it can't possibly have happened.No, but my example was meant to address your different point. If you want to move the goalposts, I have another example. Doom stole Galactus' power. Galactus said you can't do that, "I am Omega, Alpha, blahblah." Doom straight-up interrupted his schpeal and said, "B1tch, please. I already did."
It's no more an unnecessary assumption than assuming Skaar's late reaction as proof that Surfer did no such thing. That's the only point I was making. It's arguable Surfer never drained it from Skaar. It's arguable that he did. And Skaar's late reaction isn't necessarily dispositive of anything.
My point was that if you had all your power stolen, you tend to notice/react to it fast. In the Surfer/Quasar example, Surfer only had a bit of his power stolen, not all of it. So of course, he might not notice. But if Surfer had all his power stolen, chances are he would've noticed right away. In the Doom/Galactus example, Galactus actually notices right away that Doom stole his power, even before it was fully stolen, that kind of supports my point. At least the Doom/Galactus example has art and narration depicting the power being stolen, there was no such thing for Surfer/Skaar.
I understand your point, but the late reaction point wasn't suppose of be standalone proof Surfer didn't steal. It was suppose to be conjunctive with the other points I made:
(1) No art or narration depicting Surfer stealing the old power before the beat down.
(2) Surfer said he used the power cosmic to seal away Skaars power after the beat down.
(3) Skaar only reacting to losing his power after Surfer said he sealed it, which took place after the beat down.
All of these points together suggests Surfer took the power away after the beat down.
Originally posted by vince_slice
Surfer suddenly beats him down because he got serious once he realized what Skaar was going to do. Is it hard to believe that Surfer beat Skaar H2H with his own power?
Did you read the scans? Surfer says he used to power cosmic to do that. It's right there on panel, not sure how you missed. In addition the colour and effects don't resemble the old power that Skaar used. Surfer's power cosmic was blue light, and Skaar's old power was greenish lightning/energy. Vastly different.That's because Surfer never "manifested" the old power in the scans. That blue glow is from his power cosmic, he even states that he's using the power cosmic to seal and heal the planet, not the old power.
Also Skaar only realizes he can't use the old power after the beat down. If Surfer had "stolen" the old power and used it against Skaar, you would think Skaar would realize just before, or during the beat down. But that's not the case.
There's nothing in the material that suggests an energy absorption. No verbal que's, no narraration, no art depiction, nothing. ODG's point, while fair, I think he has to consider the fact that energy absorption/ draining and/or redirecting is a fairly popular plot device in comic-dom. I can't recall a single instance where it was used or even implied to be used sans verbal and illustrative que's.
The closest example that comes to mind is Rulk in his initial appearances. And even that was apart of the overall "mystery" narrative surrounding the debut of the character that was later revealed to be part of his power set.
So I guess in summary while it's technically feasible that Norrin used energy absorption, I think that it's a stretch to unequivocally say so when a plain reading of the material doesn't suggest so. Oh and the fact that iirc much like in "Planet Hulk", Norrin had no access to exotic PC to begin with on that planet. Just his strength. I could be wrong though.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
It would mean this was a low showing for Skaar because Surfer 3 shotted him once he "amped up". Skaar has fought Juggernaut, Green Scar at WWH levels, hulked out heroes, amped Dr Doom etc etc all of whom are noticeably stronger than Surfer and it took them several blows to put Skaar down when he's amping with the Old Power like he was in those scans. In this case he was backed by a whole planet of the stuff too which would only really reinforce how low of a showing it would be looking at it from your pov.
Yes I have the book at home. You believe he didn't drain Skaar (although i'm not 100% sure looking at how your stance on this has changed somewhat),
but if that's the case how did the Old Power return to it's source? Simply repairing the planet wouldn't have done that,
and I have never seen Surfer drain/remove a being's energy without touching them.Well now you have. Surfer's drain energy from things without actually touching them before. He's drained energy from a star and transferred it to Moondragon without touching either of them. It's not hard to believe that he sealed Skaar's power away without touching him, because that what he states he did (on panel), and because Skaar was unconscious and couldn't resist regardless.
The only part of the fight which this seemed possible to take place was when he and Skaar joined hands which was my original point and fits better with whats happening on panel imo.
Notice in the second scan the light and colour emitted by Surfer (blue light) while he punches Skaar is different than the old power energy (greenish energy) emitted by Skaar. Surfer's obviously amping off the power cosmic.
Surfer even later states that the whole ordeal (fighting, sealing the old power, and healing the planet) drained him of his power cosmic
http://tinypic.com/r/35bwozd/6
ODG has already debunked this imo. Plus how is Skaar going to acknowledge Surfer taking his power if he's getting beaten down. Before he knew what was happening he was near unconscious.
Surfer anchored Lunatik's lifeforce to a planet without even touching Lunatik. I think it was clear that Surfer just beat the shit out of Skaar, when he realised the kid wasn't going to listen to reason.
It's not a bad showing for Skaar, Hulk too would have pummelled Skaar if it wasn't for the fact that he is Skaar's father. Skaar is only supposed to be a 12yr old or something, a kid. He's hardly reached the peak of his powers.
In time he might turn out to be a seriously powerful high herald, at present he's just a few degrees higher than say Magneto (imo).
He has the powerset to be pretty awesome, the OP gives him so much scope for devastation and he can basically amp from any planetoid's energies so, maybe he could even affect the planet's spirit (Gaia for example)?
