Originally posted by The_Tempest
[B]Feat-to-feat, Luke absolutely demolishes Vitiate once the mind tricks are all nullified. Then he goes on to waste Sidious after a better fight.
Originally posted by jadams3928
That's precisely your problem. You say someone has a chance against Vitiate once (insert force power) has been nullified.
facepalm
Vitiate is a one-trick pony. Without his mind tricks, he's an above average Force user whose combat prowess is woefully inadequate to take on someone of Luke's caliber.
Originally posted by jadams3928
That's not how this works.
lol
How is that not how this works? There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest Vitiate can successfully ensnare a prepared opponent at whim and without preparation. He would then have to rely on his combat skills to win the day and that's just not going to happen.
Originally posted by jadams3928
Ok, Once Luke loses control of his bowel movements, Vitiate owns him.
Of course, if Vitiate had the power to make that happen and Luke could not defend against it.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
facepalmVitiate is a one-trick pony. Without his mind tricks, he's an above average Force user whose combat prowess is woefully inadequate to take on someone of Luke's caliber.
How is that not how this works? There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest Vitiate can successfully ensnare a prepared opponent at whim and without preparation. He would then have to rely on his combat skills to win the day and that's just not going to happen.
Originally posted by jadams3928
Yep, one trick pony.
Exactly, yes.
Originally posted by jadams3928
If we ignore his purging of two dark councils,
Under unknown circumstances and with an unknown amount of preparation, one of which stems entirely from an in-universe source riddled with hyperbole.
Originally posted by jadams3928
his destruction of Tol Braga and Co,
He had plenty of time to prepare for the confrontation during the skirmish with Scourge that he witnessed. Additionally, the caliber of Braga's strike team has yet to be determined.
You uncharitably referred to Mace's strike team as "the B-team," why should I not scoff in turn?
Originally posted by jadams3928
and his ownage of Revan.
A victory that occurred on a dark side nexus. Revan allowed Vitiate to gather his energies and foolishly tried to absorb the attack.
Originally posted by jadams3928
His force powers are sufficient enough for him to win almost any battle, and without a lightsaber.
This is extraordinarily broad. It would be like me saying that, since Sidious killed three of the Jedi Order's finest swordsmen in seconds, he could replicate such a stomp "in almost any battle" against almost any three opponents.
Would you support this notion? Of course not, you'd call anyone who said it a fanboy and dismiss it out of hand.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Without his mind tricks, he's an above average Force user whose combat prowess is woefully inadequate to take on someone of Luke's caliber.
Lol. You really are seeming a little biased here. I can understand dismissing the telepathy, but ignoring Vitiates Force Lightning and telekinesis is just silly. On top of his other pretty cool powers.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. You really are seeming a little biased here.
facepalm
Bro, your argument was demolished on the last page. You should try contain the butthurt with the necessary ointments and contribute.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I can understand dismissing the telepathy,
Concession accepted.
Originally posted by Nephthys
but ignoring Vitiates Force Lightning and telekinesis is just silly.
Pardon, was this the same lightning that a minor prodigy circumvented casually via lightsaber? Or the lightning that required time to channel and unleash?
Or the TK that he has to charge in order to put Revan on his ass... who promptly got back on his feet, unharmed?
Originally posted by Nephthys
On top of his other pretty cool powers.
Name 'em.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
facepalmBro, your argument was demolished on the last page. You should try contain the butthurt with the necessary ointments and contribute.
Concession accepted.
Pardon, was this the same lightning that a minor prodigy circumvented casually via lightsaber? Or the lightning that required time to channel and unleash?
Or the TK that he has to charge in order to put Revan on his ass... who promptly got back on his feet, unharmed?
Name 'em.
I haven't even read your post yet, lol.
That joke sure does never stop being funny.
All that shows is that the Hero is exceptionaslly powerful, not that Vitiates lightning is weak.
No, the lightning that disintegrated metal and was enough to domolish the temple at the start while Vitiate was dying.
Shadow Clone no jutsu for one. I have to leave for work but I'lll see if he did anything else in the morning.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I haven't even read your post yet, lol.
😂
Of course you didn't. It's not like you didn't read it anxiously and respond to comment on perceived anger.
Oh, wait. You did.
facepalm
Try harder, bro.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That joke sure does never stop being funny.
I know.
Originally posted by Nephthys
All that shows is that the Hero is exceptionaslly powerful, not that Vitiates lightning is weak.
Or it shows that Vitiate's lightning is weak and the Hero is just a minor prodigy?
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, the lightning that disintegrated metal
Where?
Originally posted by Nephthys
and was enough to domolish the temple at the start while Vitiate was dying.
And yet somehow, during that same fight, the TK wasn't used with any success against a Force user and a non-Force sensitive droid?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Shadow Clone no jutsu for one.
Damn, forgot about that one. That'll definitely bag him a win. Luke Skywalker's only an exceptionally powerful Force user, but he's no astro-mech.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I have to leave for work but I'lll see if he did anything else in the morning.
So you're mad at me for not taking his "other pretty cool" powers into account, but when asked... you haven't apparently taken them into account either?
Are you sure you're not the biased one? 😂
Originally posted by Based
I'm not seeing why his arguments are shut down. If vitiate can't dominate Sidious which come on isn't happening, what does he have? He has no combat prowess.And if he does his feats are nothing compared to Sids.
Because for every one of Vitiate's accomplishments, it's nonsensical excuses. It's debatable whether or not he can dominate Sidious but his vast array of force powers are more than capable of taking Sidious down. Feats are irrelevant unless Sidious can get close enough with a saber.
Originally posted by jadams3928
Sorry Tempest, but the only argument that was destroyed was yours. It was entertaining at the beginning but after pages of excuses, nonsense, and bias, quit while you're behind.
Are you going to respond to my points or ruin what had been, up til the post I'm quoting, a civil conversation between the two of us on an issue that has historically led to flaming and trolling?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Are you going to respond to my points or ruin what had been, up til the post I'm quoting, a civil conversation between the two of us on an issue that has historically led to flaming and trolling?
There's not much to respond to, because your rebuttal is "nuh uh this happened because (insert excuse here) so if you take way (random force power), Vitiate has no chance."
Originally posted by jadams3928
There's not much to respond to, because your rebuttal is "nuh uh this happened because (insert excuse here) so if you take way (random force power), Vitiate has no chance."
lol
Ok, then let's dispense with pretense, and speak very plainly.
Why should I be charitable with Vitiate's feats and interpret things your way when you do not reciprocate?
As I specific example, why should I be impressed with Vitiate's massacre of Tol Braga's strike team but not Sidious's manhandling of "the B-team"?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
lolOk, then let's dispense with pretense, and speak very plainly.
Why should I be charitable with Vitiate's feats and interpret things your way when you do not reciprocate?
As I specific example, why should I be impressed with Vitiate's massacre of Tol Braga's strike team but not Sidious's manhandling of "the B-team"?
Because one deals with mind domination and a force arsenal, while the other one deals with lightsaber combat. You're wasting time comparing apples and oranges.
Actually, no, it's a fair question on an issue of combat prowess.
You clearly put no stock in Sidious's accomplishment with a team of celebrated swordmasters but take umbrage when I do not share your perspective on Vitiate's feats.
Because it's coming across like you're grumpy that people are questioning Vitiate while you question others.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Actually, no, it's a fair question on an issue of combat prowess.You clearly put no stock in Sidious's accomplishment with a team of celebrated swordmasters but take umbrage when I do not share your perspective on Vitiate's feats.
Because it's coming across like you're grumpy that people are questioning Vitiate while you question others.
It's not a fair question because you're comparing lightsaber combat to mind domination and a force arsenal. The logical argument would conclude that Vitiate has a VERY good chance of mind dominating Sidious, or at the very least, holding his own in force combat. Logic also suggests that if Sidious CAN get close, he will win in a saber battle.
No, you're misunderstanding.
I want you to explain to me why it's logical to dismiss Sidious's feat when it suits your argument but it's not logical for me to dismiss Vitiate's when it suits mine.
I personally don't care that you lowballed Tiin, Kolar & Fisto. I do care when you expect your opponents to conduct themselves differently from you.
It's a methodological argument at this point and one I'd very much like resolved if this debate and others with you are to continue in the future.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, you're misunderstanding.I want you to explain to me why it's logical to dismiss Sidious's feat when it suits your argument but it's not logical for me to dismiss Vitiate's when it suits mine.
I personally don't care that you lowballed Tiin, Kolar & Fisto. I do care when you expect your opponents to conduct themselves differently from you.
It's a methodological argument at this point and one I'd very much like resolved if this debate and others with you are to continue in the future. [/B]
There's nothing to resolve. Vitiate never trained with a lightsaber because he never needed to so I expect him to lose IF he fails to subdue his opponent before his opponent can cleave him with a saber.
Originally posted by jadams3928
Because my argument assumes Vitiate doesn't get to lightsaber combat and your argument assumes Sidious bypasses the mental domination and a force battle to use a saber.
My argument isn't anything of the sort.
First, I haven't once pitted Sidious against Vitiate.
Second, with those whom I have pitted against Vitiate, my argument is that the mind trick will not work against a prepared Force user and not without prior preparation on Vitiate's part.
Originally posted by jadams3928
Because it's not an impressive feat for me when I never mentioned lightsaber combat.
But SIDIOUS_66 did on the first or second page and in that very context; you dismissed it out of hand, disparagingly referring to them as "the B team."
He was using it to suggest that Yoda, who held his own against Sidious, is extraordinarily fast among Force users.
Originally posted by jadams3928
There's nothing to resolve. Vitiate never trained with a lightsaber because he never needed to so I expect him to lose [b]IF he fails to subdue his opponent before his opponent can cleave him with a saber. [/B]
There is everything to resolve. We are to exchange arguments. I will throw jabs and taunts in if my opponent becomes aggressive or hostile, but not at the expense of the overall argument. Anything else is just trolling.
Do you really want this to devolve into trolling? Because that is the ultimate waste of time.