This group is slightly less formidable than Mace Windu's team, Sidious could pull it off. Yoda would have a bit more difficulty, but I think even Yoda could win. Satele Shan, The Starkiller Clone, and Mace Windu each could have a chance at soloing this group: that chance decreasing as listed.
Plagueis, mind you, was more powerful in combat than Palpatine as stated. Plagueis and Luke are at the very pinnacle of natural Force wielders...with Skywalker quite easily taking first place by FOTJ.
Then you have DE Sidious, Vitiate, Nihilus, the Ones, and Abeloth: increasing in power as listed. When Anakin achieved Oneness through Mortis, and/or through the Kaiburr Crystal in the Temple of Pumajima and/or through death as Vader, he's #1.
Originally posted by Col. ValerianAnd what do you mean he has gone toe-to-toe with Yoda?!
Did you not see them fight in AOTC?
If Yoda could just easily subdue him, do you not think he would have done just that, given what was at stake?
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Now you're claiming Dooku is as powerful as Yoda?In AotC Dooku proved he had no chance against him.
Nice attempt at twisting my words.
Quote me where I said "Dooku is Yoda's equal" or "Dooku had a chance at defeating Yoda." If you can't then I suggest you change your tune pal.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Non-factors in a Force fight. Swordfight? There are three of them. That's five blades to defend against.
This isn't arithmetic. Their superior numbers are diminished by his substantially greater power and skill. If Sidious were limited only to his sword, victory might be in question and would certainly take longer. But Savage and Asajj simply can't withstand his powers and Dooku is a mild challenge at best.
Sidious will defeat this strike team IMO.
@Darth Power
Yoda is a relatively passive combatant. His fighting approach and respect for Dooku prolonged the duel between them in Geonosis. In the big picture, Yoda was more interested in redeeming Dooku then killing him.
Jedi are typically not as aggressive as Sith Lords in combat situations:
No matter how dire circumstances may become, the Jedi Knight trusts the Force and keeps a cool head. Knowledge and self-control are the critical components of wise decisions, and emotional and mental clarity are an absolute necessity. Maintaining focus allows the Knight to rely on intuition; a right mind leads to right action. (SWTOR)
In contrast, Sidious is a Sith Lord and he will be very aggressive in his combat effort.
Sith Warriors crush their opponents and stride toward their goals with dreadful determination, leaving ruin and annihilation in their wake. (SWTOR)
------
While Dooku is a Sith Lord and Savage and Ventress are Dark Jedi, the team still lacks in strength to hang with Sidious. He may terminate Savage and Ventress early on and then proceed to subdue Dooku after some effort.
To be honest, Savage and Ventress cannot hang with elites in the mythos.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD@Darth Power
Yoda is a relatively passive combatant. His fighting approach and respect for Dooku prolonged the duel between them in Geonosis. In the big picture, Yoda was more interested in redeeming Dooku then killing him.
Jedi are typically not as aggressive as Sith Lords in combat situations:
No matter how dire circumstances may become, the Jedi Knight trusts the Force and keeps a cool head. Knowledge and self-control are the critical components of wise decisions, and emotional and mental clarity are an absolute necessity. Maintaining focus allows the Knight to rely on intuition; a right mind leads to right action. (SWTOR)
In contrast, Sidious is a Sith Lord and he will be very aggressive in his combat effort.
Sith Warriors crush their opponents and stride toward their goals with dreadful determination, leaving ruin and annihilation in their wake. (SWTOR)
I understand Sidious will be more aggressive against Dooku than Yoda was. Still if we're talking Sabers here, it's not just Dooku. It's Dooku, Opress and Ventress.
If we're talking in the Force, clearly Yoda couldn't have just levitated and subdued Dooku with any kind of ease or he would have. His plan was to capture him, he could try and convince him to give up the dark side later.
In fact there was no redeeming lecture in that fight.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
------While Dooku is a Sith Lord and Savage and Ventress are Dark Jedi, the team still lacks in strength to hang with Sidious.
My issue with this is that Mace clearly had the strength to hang with Sidious. So are people here starting to claim now that Mace's Force powers are above Dooku's?
Because if not, then Dooku clearly can hang on his own. But here he actually has help. The 3 of these should completely overwhelm Sidious in Sabers and with Dooku on side Sidious won't just be finishing them with a force blast.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDTo be honest, Savage and Ventress cannot hang with elites in the mythos.
Is Dooku not considered an elite anymore? Because Savage and Ventress together gave him quite a challenge.
And Savage and Maul together clearly "hanged" with Sidious for a while. (Unless your buying into this whole "Sidious was holding back" thing, but that would go against the quote you provided above.)
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ventress and Savage are non-factors; Tyranus is destroyed after a mild battle.
Yeah, that's what I said.
There's just no reason to believe that. And Zero evidence.
Oh, please. Zero evidence. So, not once during the endless arguing with Ascendancy, Nephthys, Tempest and myself did any of us provide evidence? You're in denial.
Of course it does. The statement wouldn't make any sense if Sidious held back on him.
Yes, it would. Even with Sidious toying him, it can be noted he fought better. That's it. It doesn't mean anything else.
Opress already put up a fight alongside a less powerful Sith Lord, so alongside a more powerful one as well as Ventress, I'm afraid this just becomes too much even for Sidious.
Evidenced by how easily Sidious killed Opress, your point is moot. He is a non-factor, and Sidious would dispose of him with ease. Ventress, like Opress, is nothing for Sidious. The problem here is that you still believe Sidious didn't toy with the brothers, and that is why there is no point in arguing this. We view the individual combat prowess of these characters with different eyes. Therefore, there is no way in which we will be in accordance with what will happen during this fight.
Did you not see them fight in AOTC?
The question is: did you not see them fight in AotC?
If judging by that duel you're concluding Dooku was going 'toe-to-toe' against Yoda, you couldn't be more wrong. Give the fight a couple of more minutes and Dooku no chance to escape, and he would've ended up either surrendering to Yoda's superiority, or getting himself killed if he left Yoda with no other choice. Not once in the fight was Dooku even close to have the upper hand against Yoda, and he certainly wasn't going 'toe-to-toe' against him. It was quite clear who was the more powerful and more skilled of the two.
Nice attempt at twisting my words.Quote me where I said "Dooku is Yoda's equal" or "Dooku had a chance at defeating Yoda." If you can't then I suggest you change your tune pal.
Twisting your words? And what exactly does going 'toe-to-toe' against an enemy mean? If going 'toe-to-toe' isn't suggesting two combatants are fighting on par against each other, then what is it, according to you?
Originally posted by Col. ValerianOh, please. Zero evidence. So, not once during the endless arguing with Ascendancy, Nephthys, Tempest and myself did any of us provide evidence?
LOL You really didn't. It was quite astonishing actually. You provided quotes that proved he was superior, but no quotes or evidence relevant to the debate. Just speculation.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
You're in denial.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Yes, it would. Even with Sidious toying him, it can be noted he fought better. That's it. It doesn't mean anything else.
On what basis could we judge that if he was holding back? This is clear evidence how you guys brought nothing real to the table in that debate and literally just ignore all the canon sources that clearly suggest Sidious WAS NOT messing around.
Frankly it's pretty silly to even think that. He urgently left his office because he senses the threat Maul was creating. He went all alone to a planet ruled by Mandalorian warriors risking his identity and grand plans, because Maul was had become a threat.
And then your trying to suggest he decided to just do a cocky dance LOL.
Get real. Maul put up a good fight in Sabers but ultimately was no match for Sidious, even with the aid of his brother. End of.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Evidenced by how easily Sidious killed Opress, your point is moot.
That was in a one on one! And even that wasn't exactly a 3 second blitz.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
He is a non-factor,
Do you even know the meaning of non-factor? Clearly he was a factor when he knocked Sidious off that balcony. Clearly he was a factor when we see the fatigue and frustration on Sidoous's face after he floored Opress. So unless you think Sidious is going to knock out Dooku as easily as he did Maul with a Force push, Opress will continue to be a factor in this fight.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
and Sidious would dispose of him with ease. Ventress, like Opress, is nothing for Sidious.
Put them both together and they can challenge Count Dooku. Put Count Dooku on their side and you better believe Sidious is in trouble.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
The problem here is that you still believe Sidious didn't toy with the brothers, and that is why there is no point in arguing this. We view the individual combat prowess of these characters with different eyes. Therefore, there is no way in which we will be in accordance with what will happen during this fight.
Yeah but it's your problem because your the one not accepting the fight that was given. So either provide clear proof that shows the fight given in the T-Canon show was all just an act, or stop bringing it to versus threads, which was my whole point in the first place.
Because otherwise this is going to be an ongoing problem that will come up in every Maul and Opress versus thread.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
The question is: did you not see them fight in AotC?If judging by that duel you're concluding Dooku was going 'toe-to-toe' against Yoda, you couldn't be more wrong. Give the fight a couple of more minutes and Dooku no chance to escape, and he would've ended up either surrendering to Yoda's superiority, or getting himself killed if he left Yoda with no other choice. Not once in the fight was Dooku even close to have the upper hand against Yoda, and he certainly wasn't going 'toe-to-toe' against him. It was quite clear who was the more powerful and more skilled of the two.
Whoaaa.. I never said Dooku ever had the upper hand or that he had a chance of winning. But we did see him go toe to toe with him. They had a force fight and a Saber fight. And it's not like Yoda simply pinned him to the wall, or floored and disarmed him in the Lightsaber fight. I have no doubt if the fight continued that Dooku would have lost. But as long as the fight lasted he did go toe to toe with Yoda.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Twisting your words? And what exactly does going 'toe-to-toe' against an enemy mean? If going 'toe-to-toe' isn't suggesting two combatants are fighting on par against each other, then what is it, according to you?
Going toe to toe doesn't necessarily mean either combatant can win. It just means he was able to fight him on evenish terms for a short time. He never had a chance of winning.
Originally posted by Dolos
[B]This group is slightly less formidable than Mace Windu's team, Sidious could pull it off. Yoda would have a bit more difficulty, but I think even Yoda could win. Satele Shan, The Starkiller Clone, and Mace Windu each could have a chance at soloing this group: that chance decreasing as listed.
There's no way in hell Satele Shan, Starkiller, or Mace Windu can pull off a victory here. Especially not Mace. Mace has been stated by multiple sources multiple times to be Dooku's equal. Maybe. Dooku with back up will curbstomp Mace.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Mace has been stated by multiple sources multiple times to be Dooku's equal. Maybe. Dooku with back up will curbstomp Mace.
👆
Not sure why on these boards Dooku has all of a sudden been relegated to a level where he is no longer a challenge or any kind of serious threat for Sidious.
I'm assuming it's because of Sidious's performance against Maul and Opress. But not sure why that means Dooku wouldn't fair better considering his Force Powers are far superior to Maul's.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Windu likely couldn't win, Satale certainly couldn't, but I do think Starkiller could pull it off.
I really doubt it. I can't see Starkiller being able to OHKO any one of them ala TK without getting saber molested by Dooku and Savage. 3 opponents is a lot of anyone. And Starkiller has not the saber prowess to take on the three of them.
Consider the Sith Emperor Vitiate. Awesome force prowess, would have extreme difficulty with the Exile, Revan, and Scourge. I consider Starkiller to be a similar beast to Vitiate.
I do not believe that he can off Ventress or Savage without ending up speared through the chest with a saber. He lacks the speed feats and the saber feats to fight 3 powerful opponents. Maybe if he used Jar'Kai. But otherwise there's just no way.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I really doubt it. I can't see Starkiller being able to OHKO any one of them ala TK without getting saber molested by Dooku and Savage. 3 opponents is a lot of anyone. And Starkiller has not the saber prowess to take on the three of them.Consider the Sith Emperor Vitiate. Awesome force prowess, would have extreme difficulty with the Exile, Revan, and Scourge. I consider Starkiller to be a similar beast to Vitiate.
I do not believe that he can off Ventress or Savage without ending up speared through the chest with a saber. He lacks the speed feats and the saber feats to fight 3 powerful opponents. Maybe if he used Jar'Kai. But otherwise there's just no way.
I don't think Savage or Ventress can stand against Starkillers Force attacks without being overwhelmed. The Starkiller Clones Force powers are incredible.
Vitiate was still capable of easily overwhelming 4 of the greatest Jedi of the TOR-era, including the Hero of Tython who Satale names as the greatest champion of the Order soon after. Starkiller could replicate this with Savage and Ventress at the least. He does not need to deal with them with his lightsaber imo.
The Clone does use Jar'Kai.
Originally posted by Nephthys I don't think Savage or Ventress can stand against Starkillers Force attacks without being overwhelmed. The Starkiller Clones Force powers are incredible.
Vitiate was still capable of easily overwhelming 4 of the greatest Jedi of the TOR-era, including the Hero of Tython who Satale names as the greatest champion of the Order soon after. Starkiller could replicate this with Savage and Ventress at the least. He does not need to deal with them with his lightsaber imo.
This is a terrible example. Tol Braga is the only one of note who he defeated because he fought a Dark Council member for 5 days. The Hero of Tython was weaker than he is in the final confrontation...but he did defeat Darth Angral which is pretty good. The other two are featless knights, they weren't even masters they were hardly "the greatest Jedi of the TOR era".
You speak as though he defeated Satele Shan, Jaric Kaedan, the maxed Hero fo Tython, and the Barsen'thor at the same time. Those would be the greatest Jedi of the TOR era.
The Clone does use Jar'Kai.
Yes, but to what level. Could he hold back Dooku and Savage while force pwning Ventress. I doubt it. The diversion of focus for even a split second against a monster like Dooku will mean certain death.