Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No it's pitiful to deduce that Satele Shan is more powerful than someone who is noted to be one of the most powerful Jedi in history, and went on to become an even more powerful Sith. Yoda trained Jedi for 800 years and puts Dooku as his greatest pupil.
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure." (Yoda)
-implies that Count Dooku was possibly the most gifted pupil in a span of generations that Yoda had trained during his tenure as a Jedi Master.
However, this is more likely a subjective opinion of Yoda because Anakin should be logically the most gifted pupil whom Yoda met in life, if not trained directly.
So should we assume that Dooku was the most gifted pupil in the history of the Jedi Order when Yoda isn't in the position to determine this?
Now coming towards Dooku wanking in ROTS novelization;
He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder.
What this statement affirms is that Dooku is among the strongest Jedi in history. However, their is difference between "among the strongest" and "the strongest."
This information doesn't rejects the possibility that their may have been Jedi in history who surpassed Count Dooku in power.
Now coming towards the Sith Lord part:
This is Dooku, Darth Tyranus, Count of Serenno: Once a great Jedi Master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith, Dooku is a dark colossus bestriding the galaxy.
This statement offers ambiquous message. As evident from the ever-expanding material for Star Wars, Count Dooku is unlikely to qualify among the greatest Sith in history because he eventually ended up as one of the pawns in Sidious's schemes. It can be safely argued that even Vader proved to be much more of a Sith Lord then him in scheming aspect at least. In addition, we do not know that how well Dooku would have fared in a time when millions of Sith co-existed and competition for power and glory among them was cut-throat.
Now how many Sith existed in Dooku's time?
- Sidious
- Maul
- Savage
- Assaj
Anybody else?
It is obvious that Dooku would appear to be a "dark colossus bestriding the galaxy" in his time at least.
Another crucial point is that dark side practices can seriously harm the physical well-being of a practitioner. Such practices accelerate the process of aging and a time eventually comes when the practitioner gets reduced to a mere shadow of his/her former self in power.
During the events of the Clone Wars, the signs of aging in Count Dooku slowly but surely become apparent. His opponents are young and growing in power while he is in decline as he struggles in his duels during this time. This observation sits well with the pre-planned stage of his eventual demise aboard Invisible Hand. Palpatine apparently observes these developments with calculative approach and chooses a good time for the demise of Dooku.
Now you see that picture is not so black and white with Dooku? He also grows and changes with passage of time.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Dooku underestimation on these boards is obscene.
Count Dooku had his moment of glory in the mythos but he didn't pan out to be destined as among the greatest individuals in history; individuals who could define history itself. This is how even George Lucas envisions him.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Satele is noted as a prodigy, and compared to Bastilla and Revan in prowess. But never is she stated to be more powerful or even as powerful as the likes of Revan or the Sith Emperor.
You tell me that how many Jedi in the era of Count Dooku match the feats demonstrated by Satele Shan as a Jedi Knight; let alone as a Grand Jedi Master?
As far as what I have observed thus far, only one Jedi qualifies as a match for Satele from this era and this individual is Yoda. A select few others possibly match her in martial abilities but hold no candle to her in the command of the Force.
Dooku is arguably a challenge for Satele but he doesn't have what it takes to defeat her in combat.
I have noticed that Count Dooku struggles against acrobatic opponents;
Prior to this, he struggled against Yoda who also happens to be a highly acrobatic duelist.
Satele too is evidently a highly acrobatic duelist. With her speed and skill, she is also in a good position to force Dooku to retreat if not outduel him.
In addition, Dooku is unlikely to overwhelm her with his Force powers either. Satele is immensely superior to the likes of Savage, Asajj, Anakin, Obi-Wan and many others in this particular aspect.
Your contention is weak or misplaced, my peer.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Selective reading much?
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yoda isn't an omniscient narrator, but he's the most powerful and learned Jedi in history.
As far as knowledge is concerned, do you know that Jedi Temples have been ransacked in the past? Yes, Jedi did managed to salvage lost information in time but we don't know if the archives in Yoda's time are actually complete. They are "believed" to be complete as depicted in the movies.
Also, Yoda is hardly in the position to make accurate assessment of the capabilities of Count Dooku as he himself points out to his former pupil that he still has lot to learn (This revelation is one of the classic moments for me in the mythos. 😂 ).
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
His opinion holds a shit ton greater weight than yours does on matters of power levels. Dooku leaving the order was such a big deal because he was one of the greatest students of the force the Jedi Order had produced in the history of ever.
Count Dooku is certainly counted as among the lost twenty prominent individuals who officially left the Order but Yoda is prone to make subjective claims regarding him.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Malgus was hardly in his prime yet, and he had her on her hands and knees until Jace Malcom intervened.
And Malgus packs overwhelming martial abilities. He has singlehandedly slaughtered a blademaster before.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sure there were tons of talented individuals, but that can be said for every era of Star Wars.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also don't forget the PT is hailed as the Golden Age of the Jedi.
The era of Marka Ragnos is regarded as the Golden Age of the Sith; however, this doesn't proves that Ragnos's Sith Empire was the strongest in the mythos.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
So what? Mace Windu's team was comprised of some of the most celebrated blademasters in the order's golden age. That is greater hype than being 'some of the finest warriors' in the order.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I am well aware. Braga is the only one on that team with feats sans the Hero of Tython.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Hero of Tython, yes. Other 2? No.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
When have I ever denied Vitiate is top tier? He's up there with Sidious and Yoda force wise. Luke is way too much of a stretch though.
Vitiate and Sidious specially get past the biological limitations after becoming virtually immortals.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I am not saying they can't I am saying that there is no proof supporting it other than two rather obscure, general statements. Aayla Secura could likely be counted amongst the strongest of the PT order, but she'd get shitstoped by Sidious' pinky finger.
How are they obscure? The Title screen is first thing you see every time you log in as a Jedi. It's the original text and its stating very clearly that they're 'the galaxies most powerful Jedi' (I found the quote). And if we can't accept quotes from the Star Wars The Old Republic Encylopedia and dismiss it as 'obscure' then what source can we accept? And Sidious being able to shitstomp a powerful Jedi Council Member like that would be extremely impressive, wouldn't you think? Just like Vitiate Forcepwning 4 of 'the galaxies most powerful Jedi' is unbelievably impressive and an unprecedented show of force (ba dum tish).
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Force pwning one Jedi is not the same as force pwning someone while fending off two opponents.
Which is why I'm saying he's has a chance if he can take out one of two of them before they can close the distance, not during the fight itself. Recall though that Galen could just Force leap away to get some distance, or levitate in mid-air while unleashing his Force powers as he can do.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I disagree. Post-ROTS Vader has never been hyped to have bladeswork on the level of people like ROTS Kenobi, Dooku, or Windu. Unless you think he got a powerboost after Mustafar, there's no way you could rank Vader above Dooku.
I do. Vader clearly becomes much better with the Force than Anakin ever was and has numerous badass feats to prove it. He's also incredibly strong, surprisingly quick and very skilled. Plus his armor is highly lightsaber resistant and can protect him from most of what Dooku can dish out in terms of the Force. I've argued that Vader is underestimated quite a lot. He could take Dooku like he already has, only this time with a combination of devastating TK and strength.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Game I think is the highest canon. In game he slaps him around then defeats him ala lightsaber.
Well thats a discussion for another time. The fact is that Galen is at least close to him.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"Destroy the Sith we must." Yoda may not believe in the use of the force for offense in usual circumstances. But he has his moments. Close to Yoda? Sure. Equal to or superior to? No.
I think that though non-canon, the DS ending of TFU gives a pretty good depiction of what would happen with Starkiller vs. a serious Palpatine. And let me tell you, Yoda would give him the same treatment if he has the SOM he had against Sidious.
But he didn't have one of his 'moments' while fighting Dooku did he? He just countered his attacks and never attacked back.
Starkiller's feats are frankly beyond Yoda outside of that one time in the CWC. He force pushed hundreds if not thousands of droids hard enough to create an artificial hurricane over Raxus Prime, He was able to redirect a falling Star Destroyer, not an insignificant feat given the scale of the task and that he bent the hull, his lightning was capable to short-circuiting an AT-AT and killing its crew before he used TK to push it over and he's capable of crushing walkers and he punts frigates and Star Destroyer chunks out of the way of his falling ship in TFUII. The man is insane.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Because there is 1 Jedi Council Member on that strike team. It's an unquantifable statement. There's no way you're going to convince me that those Jedi were more powerful than say, Satele, Kaedan, or the Barsen'thor.
How the hell is it unquantifiable? It's pretty damn clean-cut. They are the 'most powerful', 'strongest and most resolute Jedi in the Order.' Theres nothing ambiguous about that. I'm sorry that you're choosing to ignore canon, but frankly I don't need you to accept it for it to be true.
Also you may be able to handwave away Satale and Kaedan because both were asked to join but declined. And I'm not sure of the Barsen'thor, but perhaps they just weren't that powerful at the time. Hasn't the only thing they've done at that point is cure space AIDS?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yes they can. They are featless. They have no one to be scaled to.
Feats are not needed when we have other evidence as to their power. Besides which, I did give you some info on their abilities.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The point of the Sacking of Coruscant was that the Republics best and strongest fighters were at Alderaan.
Not all if a famous duelist was on Coruscant. Corin Tok was also present at the battle and its where he earned his title as the 'invincible' Jedi, by being completely untouchable and slaughtering many Sith also earning him the name 'Sith Butcher'.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku-Savage-Ventress run towards Starkiller to engage him. Starkiller lifts up Ventress or Savage. By the time he ragdolls them. Dooku and one of his apprentices will be up on him. And if the pins Ventress and Savage, Dooku will dice him to pieces before he can finish KOing them.
TBH Starkiller could likely kill Savage with a single blast of lightning and he stands a good chance at overwhelming Ventress with it too. Likewise he could snap their necks with TK imo.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD-implies that Count Dooku was possibly the most gifted pupil in a span of generations that Yoda had trained during his tenure as a Jedi Master.
However, this is more likely a subjective opinion of Yoda because Anakin should be logically the most gifted pupil whom Yoda met in life, if not trained directly.
Anakin was mentioned before that quote, but someone mentioned how he's reckless or something. Don't have the book on me.
Then Yoda goes on to say that the best would be the one who was most learned in the ways of the Force and the best student e.t.c which was Count Dooku.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have noticed that Count Dooku struggles against acrobatic opponents;
I'm a bit lost how you reached this conclusion.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm a bit lost how you reached this conclusion.
Similarly, Dooku also struggled against Yoda; a highly acrobatic duelist.
You can assert that Yoda is an exceptional duelist but what about Asajj? She is good with a saber but if she gave trouble to Dooku with acrobatics then it isn't unreasonable to assume that Satele can relatively do better.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dooku struggled against Asajj once when she employed acrobatics in her dueling effort against him and he then unleashed his Force powers on her to subdue her.Similarly, Dooku also struggled against Yoda; a highly acrobatic duelist.
You can assert that Yoda is an exceptional duelist but what about Asajj? She is good with a saber but if she gave trouble to Dooku with acrobatics then it isn't unreasonable to assume that Satele can relatively do better.
Well yeah Yoda's the most powerful Jedi of the PT/OT era.
And just because Dooku used the Force to defeat Ventress, doesn't mean he couldn't win the Saber fight. It was just the quicker and more efficient way to deal with her.
Either way the fight didn't last very long and Dooku was forcing her back the whole time. And she's not known to fight defensively so I assume her being forced backwards was a sign of her being overpowered.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This quote:"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure." (Yoda)
-implies that Count Dooku was possibly the most gifted pupil in a span of generations that Yoda had trained during his tenure as a Jedi Master.
Yes that's what it's saying.
However, this is more likely a subjective opinion of Yoda because Anakin should be logically the most gifted pupil whom Yoda met in life, if not trained directly.
Not at all. Because when he made that statement Anakin was not the strongest, he was never wiser than Dooku, nor did he have his knowledge of the fore. Nor does Anakin strike me as the best student.
So should we assume that Dooku was the most gifted pupil in the history of the Jedi Order when Yoda isn't in the position to determine this?
He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder.What this statement affirms is that Dooku is among the strongest Jedi in history. However, their is difference between "among the strongest" and "the strongest."
Yoda says he was his best pupil. That makes sense, he is one of the strongest. Dooku is not above Yoda.
This information doesn't rejects the possibility that their may have been Jedi in history who surpassed Count Dooku in power.
Now coming towards the Sith Lord part:This statement offers ambiquous message. As evident from the ever-expanding material for Star Wars, Count Dooku is unlikely to qualify among the greatest Sith in history because he eventually ended up as one of the pawns in Sidious's schemes. It can be safely argued that even Vader proved to be much more of a Sith Lord then him in scheming aspect at least. In addition, we do not know that how well Dooku would have fared in a time when millions of Sith co-existed and competition for power and glory among them was cut-throat.
Now how many Sith existed in Dooku's time?- Sidious
- Maul
- Savage
- AssajAnybody else?
It is obvious that Dooku would appear to be a "dark colossus bestriding the galaxy" in his time at least.
Another crucial point is that dark side practices can seriously harm the physical well-being of a practitioner. Such practices accelerate the process of aging and a time eventually comes when the practitioner gets reduced to a mere shadow of his/her former self in power.
You have no proof Dooku got weaker after he fell to the dark side.
During the events of the Clone Wars, the signs of aging in Count Dooku slowly but surely become apparent. His opponents are young and growing in power while he is in decline as he struggles in his duels during this time. This observation sits well with the pre-planned stage of his eventual demise aboard Invisible Hand. Palpatine apparently observes these developments with calculative approach and chooses a good time for the demise of Dooku.
This is all a great theory, but supposition and quite frankly a gigantic red herring.
Now you see that picture is not so black and white with Dooku? He also grows and changes with passage of time.
I would rather contend that Dooku is among the most hyped up individuals in the mythos. In absence of critical analysis, people falsely assume that Count Dooku is on par with the true elites of the mythos. He apparently isn't.
Count Dooku had his moment of glory in the mythos but he didn't pan out to be destined as among the greatest individuals in history; individuals who could define history itself. This is how even George Lucas envisions him.
Satele is nonetheless regarded as the champion of the Republic in her time. The fact that she became the Grand Jedi Master in a time of voilence and conflict; bodes well for her skill and power.
You tell me that how many Jedi in the era of Count Dooku match the feats demonstrated by Satele Shan as a Jedi Knight; let alone as a Grand Jedi Master?
As far as what I have observed thus far, only one Jedi qualifies as a match for Satele from this era and this individual is Yoda. A select few others possibly match her in martial abilities but hold no candle to her in the command of the Force.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj07qh51zPI
^This shits all over anything Satele has shown.
Dooku is arguably a challenge for Satele but he doesn't have what it takes to defeat her in combat.
I have noticed that Count Dooku struggles against acrobatic opponents;Prior to this, he struggled against Yoda who also happens to be a highly acrobatic duelist.
Your contention is weak or misplaced, my peer.
Covered above.
-snip-
Mizukage_Yoda
[quote]SWL
Count Dooku had his moment of glory in the mythos but he didn't pan out to be destined as among the greatest individuals in history; individuals who could define history itself. This is how even George Lucas envisions him.
Because you say so amirite?[/quote]
...He actually said that? facepalm
Originally posted by Nephthys
How are they obscure? The Title screen is first thing you see every time you log in as a Jedi. It's the original text and its stating very clearly that they're 'the galaxies most powerful Jedi' (I found the quote). And if we can't accept quotes from the [b]Star Wars The Old Republic Encylopedia and dismiss it as 'obscure' then what source can we accept? And Sidious being able to shitstomp a powerful Jedi Council Member like that would be extremely impressive, wouldn't you think? Just like Vitiate Forcepwning 4 of 'the galaxies most powerful Jedi' is unbelievably impressive and an unprecedented show of force (ba dum tish).
It's obscure because we don't know how powerful they are in comparison to others. We can accept them [i]showing feats[i]. Like Vandar Tokare has hype from TOR encyclopedia too, as does every other Council member and their mom. But that doesn't mean I'd rate him higher than say, Satele Shan. In the battledome feats>Hype.
And it's hardly unprecedented, Kreia force pwned 3 of the most powerful KOTOR masters instantly.
We don't know how powerful those guys were, so it's unquantifiable. And using them as feats for Vitiate in the BD, can be dismissed under the grounds of it being a no limits fallacy.
[QUOTE[
Which is why I'm saying he's has a chance if he can take out one of two of them before they can close the distance, not during the fight itself. Recall though that Galen could just Force leap away to get some distance, or levitate in mid-air while unleashing his Force powers as he can do.
[/QUOTE]
And Dooku can do the same, as can Ventress and Opress.
I do. Vader clearly becomes much better with the Force than Anakin ever was and has numerous badass feats to prove it. He's also incredibly strong, surprisingly quick and very skilled. Plus his armor is highly lightsaber resistant and can protect him from most of what Dooku can dish out in terms of the Force. I've argued that Vader is underestimated quite a lot. He could take Dooku like he already has, only this time with a combination of devastating TK and strength.
That's great and all, but canon states Vader got weaker after Mustafar. It's a non-negotiable. Vader is wanked pretty hard here, and Dooku is downplayed a ton.
Well thats a discussion for another time. The fact is that Galen is at least close to him.
But he didn't have one of his 'moments' while fighting Dooku did he? He just countered his attacks and never attacked back.
Starkiller's feats are frankly beyond Yoda outside of that one time in the CWC. He force pushed hundreds if not thousands of droids hard enough to create an artificial hurricane over Raxus Prime, He was able to redirect a falling Star Destroyer, not an insignificant feat given the scale of the task and that he bent the hull, his lightning was capable to short-circuiting an AT-AT and killing its crew before he used TK to push it over and he's capable of crushing walkers and he punts frigates and Star Destroyer chunks out of the way of his falling ship in TFUII. The man is insane.
How the hell is it unquantifiable? It's pretty damn clean-cut. They are the 'most powerful', 'strongest and most resolute Jedi in the Order.' Theres nothing ambiguous about that. I'm sorry that you're choosing to ignore canon, but frankly I don't need you to accept it for it to be true.
Furthermore, Satele Shan is stated, in TOR: Fatal Alliance to be the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy and the Emperor's most hated foe. Someone who would surely be a part of this team of the strongest, most resolute Jedi in the order.
Conclusion: SOME of these people were the strongest in the order and combined they formed a formidable force. But nothing unprecedented like you seem to imply.
Also you may be able to handwave away Satale and Kaedan because both were asked to join but declined. And I'm not sure of the Barsen'thor, but perhaps they just weren't that powerful at the time. Hasn't the only thing they've done at that point is cure space AIDS?
Yes that's my point. There were dozens of Jedi who are powerful who just could not because they had other matters to attend to. the Barsen'thor for example was busy with keeping the Republic in one piece.
Lol wut. No curing a plague and shielding thousands of Jedi Masters from death is hardly just 'curing space AIDS'
"There's a title reserved for the most prestigious among us, whose wisdom and skill safeguard the galaxy. It hasn't been bestowed in thousands of years."
Feats are not needed when we have other evidence as to their power. Besides which, I did give you some info on their abilities.
Not all if a famous duelist was on Coruscant. Corin Tok was also present at the battle and its where he earned his title as the 'invincible' Jedi, by being completely untouchable and slaughtering many Sith also earning him the name 'Sith Butcher'.
TBH Starkiller could likely kill Savage with a single blast of lightning and he stands a good chance at overwhelming Ventress with it too. Likewise he could snap their necks with TK imo. [/B]
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well yeah Yoda's the most powerful Jedi of the PT/OT era.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And just because Dooku used the Force to defeat Ventress, doesn't mean he couldn't win the Saber fight. It was just the quicker and more efficient way to deal with her.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Either way the fight didn't last very long and Dooku was forcing her back the whole time. And she's not known to fight defensively so I assume her being forced backwards was a sign of her being overpowered.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
...He actually said that? facepalm
"Chancellor, please!" he gasps, desperate and helpless, his aristocratic demeanor invisible, his courage only a bitter memory. He is reduced to begging for his life, as so many of his victims have.
"Please, you promised me immunity! We had a deal! Help me!"
And his begging gains him a share of mercy equal to that | which he has dispensed.
"A deal only if you released me," Palpatine replies, cold as intergalactic space. "Not if you used me as bait to kill my friends."
And he knows, then, that all has indeed been going according to plan. Sidious's plan, not his own. This had been a Jedi trap | indeed, but Jedi were not the quarry.
They were the bait.
"Anakin," Palpatine says quietly. "Finish him."
Years of Jedi training make Anakin hesitate; he looks down upon Dooku and sees not a Lord of the Sith but a beaten, broken, cringing old man.
"I shouldn't-"
But when Palpatine barks, "Do it! Now!" Anakin realizes that this isn't actually an order. That it is, in fact, nothing more than what he's been waiting for his whole life.
Permission.
And Dooku-As he looks up into the eyes of Anakin Skywalker for the final time,Count Dooku knows that he has been deceived not just today, but for many, many years. That he has never been the true apprentice.
That he has never been the heir to the power of the Sith. He has been only a tool.
His whole life-all his victories, all his struggles, all his heritage, all his principles and his sacrifices, everything he's done, everything he owns, everything he's been, all his dreams and grand vision for the future Empire and the Army of Sith-have been only a pathetic sham, because all of them, all of him, add up only to this.
He has existed only for this.
This (ROTS Novelization)
I know that you will not respond to me but your blatant overhype of Count should be countered effectively. Your reaction demonstrates your insecurity in this regard.
Also, I recall a quote from Lucas in which he puts (Cyborg) Vader, Count and Maul in the same boat. Not a pleasant revelation if Lucas thinks so highly of Count. Their are blind fans and then their is truth. I know that the latter hurts.
If Dooku had what it take to redefine history; he would have done it either through scheming or his strength. He couldn't! He is a Sith Lord of note but he is far from the greatest ones in the whole mythos.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
-snip-
Putting Maul, Dooku, and Cyborg Vader in the same boat is in the means that they were all placeholders. Maul because he was merely an assassin, Dooku because he was old and couldn't grow to surpass him, Vader because similar to Dooku he couldn't surpass Sidious.
Being unable to surpass the most powerful Sith Lord in history hardly makes one weak, and definitely doesn't detract from Dooku's hype.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Putting Maul, Dooku, and Cyborg Vader in the same boat is in the means that they were all placeholders. Maul because he was merely an assassin, Dooku because he was old and couldn't grow to surpass him, Vader because similar to Dooku he couldn't surpass Sidious.Being unable to surpass the most powerful Sith Lord in history hardly makes one weak, and definitely doesn't detract from Dooku's hype.
👆
Dooku has the accolades and feats to earn a place among the giants of the franchise.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Not at all. Because when he made that statement Anakin was not the strongest, he was never wiser than Dooku, nor did he have his knowledge of the fore. Nor does Anakin strike me as the best student.
What about Mace? Wasn't he on par with Dooku, if not better?
One thing to note in Yoda's statement is that it is also filled with several question marks. So Yoda's assessment is a rough one.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
One of the most yes. And yes being the golden child of the order in it's golden age is pretty amazing hype.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yoda says he was his best pupil. That makes sense, he is one of the strongest. Dooku is not above Yoda.When did I ever say that that wasn't the case?
Dooku haven't manhandled one of the strongest Sith Lords in history in the manner as she did with her Jedi powers; Dooku haven't demonstrated command of the Force on par with that of Satele thus far.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He would have filled damned well. Dooku's entire powerbase was the CIS. He's ridiculously powerful, charismatic, dangerously intelligent.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Uhh the same argument could be made for Sidious...you know the most powerful Sith in history.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You have no proof Dooku got weaker after he fell to the dark side
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This is all a great theory, but supposition and quite frankly a gigantic red herring.Now you see that picture is not so black and white with Dooku? He also grows and changes with passage of time.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Which is why he is stated to be the equals of the only two people from the golden age of Jedi who can match Darth Sidious.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Because you say so amirite?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No she isn't. That's the Hero of Tython.
Hero of Tython could be even stronger though; I don't deny the possibility. This guy is amazing in all aspects.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
She did nothing any master of note from the PT could not do.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj07qh51zPI
^This shits all over anything Satele has shown.
Secondly, the medium which you cited is like an anime which is known to depict characters in a unique but souped-up fashion. Satele have never been depicted in a such a medium and I am sure if she would be ever, she would be not less impressive.
Finally, even in this footage, Mace's greatest feats are repeated use of Force waves to knock out lot of droids and punching through them on several occasions. However, Mace is never this impressive in more realistic mediums which you should stick to for a more fair comparison. But still what Mace does in this footage doesn't makes him more impressive then Satele. In the hope trailer, she decimates anything else in her path barring Malgus and she even manhandles Malgus (Even before the Great War, Malgus was widely ragarded as one of the greatest warriors in the Sith Empire) with her Jedi powers.
Heck, if you are impressed by Mace's punches through those "not so high quality droids"*, you should note that Satele can shatter "blast doors" without effort;
And, of course, troops, droids and all that are nothing but mooks to her.
*The reason that I dubbed those droids as "not so high quality" is on the basis of the observation that an HK series unit singlehandedly destroyed several B2 droids and a Droideka in single event with ease and without any weapons (after it was activated on Mustafar).
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yes he does.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yoda is *the* master of Ataru so that's a pretty bad analysis.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Your contention is weak or misplaced, my peer.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The moment you said that because Yoda says he has much to learn he isn't a reputable source I stopped reading. This post is unnecessarily long winded. And is frankly all over the place with it's points.
More lightning poured forth from Dooku's hand, but Yoda continued to catch it and turn it, and seemed to become even more settled in his defensive posture.
"Much to learn you still have," Yoda remarked.
Dooku disengaged the futile lightning assault. "It is obvious this contest will not be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with a lightsaber."
Yoda reverently drew out his lightsaber, its green blade humming to
life. (AOTC Novelization)
What do you make of this?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Putting Maul, Dooku, and Cyborg Vader in the same boat is in the means that they were all placeholders. Maul because he was merely an assassin, Dooku because he was old and couldn't grow to surpass him, Vader because similar to Dooku he couldn't surpass Sidious.
Dooku served as a stop-gap measure until Sidious could find a more suitable apprentice but his luck ran out when Anakin was also seriously injured by Obi-Wan. As a cyborg, Vader was not in the position to advance far in dark side practices.
Yes, Dooku being old was an issue as I have highlighted in my previous posts.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Being unable to surpass the most powerful Sith Lord in history hardly makes one weak, and definitely doesn't detract from Dooku's hype.
Dark side practices are the key to unlock abilities which can transcend biological limitations. Keep this in mind.
Sidious was interested in a young Force-sensitive individual who packed great potential (not necessarily greater then his) and would show promise with dark side practices. Was Anakin the only one who could meet his expectations? Nope. Sidious showed interest in Marek and Luke as well.