The_Tempest
Senior Member
Originally posted by Excalibur2776
So basically to them its Non-Canon? 😖
That’s the vibe I get, anyways. Filoni’s commentary about “Dooku Captured” (s1) emphasizes that while Dooku is “extremely powerful,” he and other Jedi and Sith are bound by limitations. I recall specifically Filoni mentioning Jedi defeat in the Geonosian arena and Palpatine constructing the Death Star as examples of Force users succumbing to superior numbers and compensating with technology. I also recall that, elsewhere, he mentioned Mace’s feats on Dantooine (from the microseries) as being exaggerated.
This is pretty much common sense to me, which is why as of late I’ve only concerned myself with feats from the films, television series, and their tie-in material (Darth Plagueis, the various comic books and graphic novels such as Sith Hunters, etc.). Characters like DE!Sidious, Vitiate, and Nihilus are obvious outliers who would not display such power in the films.
On the other hand, all that stuff is C-canon and Filoni’s authority extends only to the TV show so I don’t think it’s his call to dismiss other stories even if his argument is completely well founded.
SIDIOUS_66
Aside from Windu's perfomance against Sidious, he and Dooku do have comparable feats, but for some reason, I believe Lucas intended for Windu to be above Dooku. I know I can't use that in a vs. forum, but just saying.As for the thread, I think Windu takes it after a hard fight. If this is Windu with the same amp he recieved when he fought Sidious, then he stomps.
It’s all speculation, really. But I don’t think George ever intended to explicitly indicate Mace is Dooku’s better. That theory only ever rolled around after Mace beat Sidious, Dooku’s better. Prior to that, the implication was that Dooku and Mace were peers, with the Count having the likely advantage.
First, I think it has to be acknowledged that—with a few exceptions—Lucas obviously doesn’t give a crap about cogent power levels and doesn’t denote hitpoints, combat level, etc.
Second, I think Mace’s victory only ever entered the equation after Sam Jackson reportedly demanded (in addition to a purple lightsaber) that Mace not “go out like a punk.” I’ve also read reports that, initially, Mace was to die at Boba Fett’s hands in Episode III.
Third, the nature of Mace’s victory is still in question even from the novel’s perspective. Initially, Anakin was to be present for the entire duel between Sidious and Mace—in fact, Sidious was to fight with Anakin’s lightsaber (Anakin’s hilt is still visible in the released footage), implying that Sidious’s defeat was staged. Even in the released film, it’s implied: Sidious telepathically urges Anakin to depart the Temple and join him; Mace’s disarming occurs an instant before Anakin enters the room; and Sidious can clearly defend himself to a degree with the Force—undermining the argument that the timing was too precise. From the novel’s perspective, Mace defeats Sidious with a combination of the shatterpoint charism and exploiting Sidious’s fear. If you read the entire passage, you’ll note that Sidious scoffs at the idea that he was afraid—something Mace himself confirms: “Palpatine wasn’t afraid at all.” Silver2467 has a lengthy and well-presented blog post about it.
Fourth, even if Mace won, The Clone Wars constantly emphasizes the decisive role played by motivation, environment, and general circumstance in lightsaber duels. In s3, Savage has an advantage against both Obi-Wan and Anakin in close-quarters combat but is unable to subdue Obi-Wan in S5 even with aid from Maul. Throughout the series, Anakin gives Dooku all kinds of hell (from the film to s4’s “Shadow Warrior” and “Crisis on Naboo”), but in ROTS, Dooku is able to fend off Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously for a time.
Fifth, I think it’s thematically inappropriate to put Dooku who is, for all intents and purposes, the primary antagonist of the Jedi decisively below Yoda and Mace and then have him challenged by Anakin. But that’s just my opinion on the matter.