Originally posted by SamZED
Like Jin said, it's his MO. Ock's been fighting SM for years, took him a mind swoop to realize Parker's been holding back all this time.
Was he always like this, or is it a phobia from that time he cut loose on Sin Eater? The way he stood in front of him with his limbs all shaky, stuttering, as he told Parker not to blame himself for all his life debilitating injuries, that has to be the one of the cruelest things you could do to a super hero..
But if Spidey "always" holds back, that doesn't make it any less impressive if someone beats his "going all out while holding back" standards, right? The same way a Superman or Thor will always, per their character, hold back, and maybe lose a few in the process. It's still impressive to say, "Hey, he beat Superman." I still think Davos beating Spidey is pretty impressive, in that context. And I don't know the details of Silver Samurai beating him, but if Spidey was actually taking him seriously, and there wasn't some kind of extenuating circumstance, I'd consider that impressive too..
Otherwise, there's not much point in ever citing a win over certain characters, if they never go it 100%.
Do you think Spidey was going all out vs Black Tarantula, btw? In round 2, if not round 1? He literally punched himself out.... But that doesn't prove he was hitting him as hard as he could, does it?
Originally posted by jinzin
Oh I just don't think Spidey psychologically *can* go all out on opponents the majority of the time. Unless he's under a large amount of duress. He typically holds back. I mean, isn't that Parker's MO? (sorry I'm really tired and starting to get lost)As far as Shang Chi goes. I guess he'd be in the second tier or low end of the first. He's not top tier though. Even his scuffle with Logan (which is a retrospective feat) doesn't really prove, he's above that. Current versions of Logan and Cap roll him over.
No, you're right. He's terrified of crippling someone, considering what happened when he didn't hold back enough vs Sin Eater..
Tell me, do you consider Shang above Cat, on the same level, or below?
Cats biggest claim to fame is probably beating Iron Fist, after he got distracted.. It's an easy feat to write off, but I think if you're good enough to beat a top tier if they make a single mistake, that's still pretty impressive..
Originally posted by cdtm
No, you're right. He's terrified of crippling someone, considering what happened when he didn't hold back enough vs Sin Eater..Tell me, do you consider Shang above Cat, on the same level, or below?
Cats biggest claim to fame is probably beating Iron Fist, after he got distracted.. It's an easy feat to write off, but I think if you're good enough to beat a top tier if they make a single mistake, that's still pretty impressive..
I think Cat's a bit below Shang in straight h2h skill and significantly below him in Chi amping. His only drawback is that he keeps picking fights with top tier guys. He'd have a better record if he stopped trying to fight *the best*. Still though, Heroes for Hire Iron Fist was one of the stronger written versions of the character so it *is* impressive that Cat beat him.
Originally posted by jinzin
So bad it's not even funny. lol They're practically combat wizards.
Yeah, more then likely.
Anything like Ranma, Kenshin, Naruto, Bleach, DBZ, Kenshiro.. Forget about it.
I think "some" comic book characters can hang with some anime characters, though.. The true bullet timers. Comics aren't as stylized as manga, and even a high end feat in comics might look less impressive then a run of the mill feat in manga because of presentation, even if the comic feat is more impressive overall..
Originally posted by jinzin
I think Cat's a bit below Shang in straight h2h skill and significantly below him in Chi amping. His only drawback is that he keeps picking fights with top tier guys. He'd have a better record if he stopped trying to fight *the best*. Still though, Heroes for Hire Iron Fist was one of the stronger written versions of the character so it *is* impressive that Cat beat him.
IIRC Cat beat Ironfist due to Danny being distracted from the fight. No circumstances Danny beat him back and easily.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
IIRC Cat beat Ironfist due to Danny being distracted from the fight. No circumstances Danny beat him back and easily.
A lot of the second fight happened off panel.
But the thing is, he's good enough where Danny HAS to take him seriously. The feat isn't in beating him, it's in being enough of a credible threat who can blitz him if he makes a single mistake.
Originally posted by cdtm
A lot of the second fight happened off panel.But the thing is, he's good enough where Danny HAS to take him seriously. The feat isn't in beating him, it's in being enough of a credible threat, where if Danny gets distracted, he gets blitzed.
Distraction does not mean blitz. It just means being at a disadvantage and losing because of it. Outside from circumstances involved Danny defeated him straight up.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Distraction does not mean blitz. It just means being at a disadvantage and losing because of it.
He got distracted, and got blitzed, man. 💃
Glanced at Misty, then got knocked unconscious by the guy he was fighting right in front of him.
You're making it sound like he was clocked by a baseball bat from behind or something. He took his eyes off his opponent for a second, and paid for it.
Which IS an impressive thing to pull off, on a top class fighter. It really is. Is it an ideal circumstance? No. Does it make Cat a top tier? Absolutely not.
But being good enough to beat the best on an off day, "is" an accomplishment.
Originally posted by cdtm
He got distracted, and got blitzed, man. 💃Glanced at Misty, then got knocked unconscious by the guy he was fighting right in front of him.
You're making it sound like he was clocked by a baseball bat from behind or something. He took his eyes off his opponent for a second, and paid for it.
Which IS an impressive thing to pull off, on a top class fighter. It really is. Is it an ideal circumstance? No. Does it make Cat a top tier? Absolutely not.
But being good enough to beat the best on an off day, "is" an accomplishment.
Yes but it implies that Cat can only defeat Danny with a circumstance, while Danny victory it implies that he can win without circumstances against the Cat.
And no that is not a speed blitz. Sneak attacks or surprise attacks go far even in real life.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes but it implies that Cat can only defeat Danny with a circumstance, while Danny victory it implies that he can win without circumstances against the Cat.And no that is not a speed blitz. Sneak attacks or surprise attacks go far even in real life.
It's only a sneak surprise attack if someone isn't expecting an attack. If Danny really was caught completely unaware while in the middle of a fight, that would make him an idiot. 😉 Like that guy Floyd Mayweather clocked in that infamous boxing match.
More like he got distracted, created an opening in his defenses for an instant, and Cat jumped on it. If it was a lesser opponent, it probably wouldn't have gotten through. Danny's too good to drop his guard completely in mid fight and expect his opponent to stop fighting.
Originally posted by cdtm
It's only a sneak surprise attack if someone isn't expecting an attack. If Danny really was caught completely unaware while in the middle of a fight, that would make him an idiot. 😉 Like that guy Mayweather clocked in that infamous boxing match.More like he got distracted, created an opening in his defenses for an instant, and Cat jumped on it.
Sneak attack is more like hitting some one without them realizing your there.
Surprise attack is more like getting hit due to being distracted or not thinking you would get attacked. Caught off guard due to outside factors gives a sense of it being a surprise.
It's really irrelevant on the terminology of what happened. Fact of the matter is without that "distraction" circumstance, it was portrayed that the Cat needed it in order to win that fight and leaves the question if the Cat could have won without it. While Danny defeated the Cat straight up. As that alone speaks more for Danny then the Cat.