Originally posted by Daredevil1
As then in there next fight Cass humiliated her.
😂 Yeah, that narrow loss where she dropped unconscious a second before Cass did was so humiliating.
She killed Cass outright, and Cass barely edged her out in the rematch. And, the writer even shoehorned in that she had a deathwish, and Cass was her chosen executioner..
Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL the fight were Cass left her dangling on a hook. There fight after the rematch. Haha.
I'm sorry, I thought you were using her averages, and not her low end showings when she was written entirely OOC.
Like using Thor's string of losses as some kind of litmus test, even though the rules are pretty explicit about using their entire history, instead of just cherry picking the lowest end feats.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL the fight were Cass left her dangling on a hook. There fight after the rematch. Haha.
👆
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yet Elekta came back better while Shiva loss the rematch and came back worse. No real counter but an excuse.
👆
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, just because she lost to one of the best martial artist in either DC or Marvel and who is superior to Elektra, she automatically loses to Elektra. Weird logic there but its a marvel MA after all.👆
What's weird is logic that Cass is superior to Elektra. By your logic I could say Elektra stalemates characters like Shang, Daredevil and Wolverine, as they would wreck Cass. That is your weird logic.
My logic is that since Shiva lost to Cass in the rematch and then in the next fight got owned by Cass, in a humiliating fashion to some sound losses against other top names as well. While Elektra has not shown such humiliating losses since her improvement and normally beats others in rematches and has stalemated her top names.
Is good enough reason for me to say she takes Shiva.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
What's weird is logic that Cass is superior to Elektra. By your logic I could say Elektra stalemates characters like Shang, Daredevil and Wolverine, as they would wreck Cass. That is your weird logic.My logic is that since Shiva lost to Cass in the rematch and then in the next fight got owned by Cass, in a humiliating fashion to some sound losses against other top names as well. While Elektra has not shown such humiliating losses since her improvement and normally beats others in rematches and has stalemated her top names.
Is good enough reason for me to say she takes Shiva.
What other losses? Bullseye killing her is more humiliating than all of shiva's losses combined. Black Widow stalemating her, hercules stalemating her, two losses against Kuruyama and Daredevil beating her in two panels is more humiliating too.
Not if we go by their feats and track records.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
What's weird is logic that Cass is superior to Elektra. By your logic I could say Elektra stalemates characters like Shang, Daredevil and Wolverine, as they would wreck Cass. That is your weird logic.
His logic isn't weird. Because he's using logic.. By his logic, your logic doesn't make sense, because he's actually using logic. He's basing his opinion on Cass from her comics. Seriously, read a Batgirl comic from before her character assassination.
And lol at including Wolverine in that list of martial artists.
Originally posted by cdtm
His logic isn't weird. Because he's using logic.. By his logic, your logic doesn't make sense, because he's actually using logic. He's basing his opinion on Cass from her comics. Seriously, read a Batgirl comic from before her character assassination.And lol at including Wolverine in that list of martial artists.
Says the person that didn't even know about Cass Vs Shiva fight were Cass humiliated her.
Wolverine is a beast in fighting because not just the martial arts that he brings to the table but everything included. And he is very skilled as well.
Read some books..... any........period.....scratch that. You can't even comment correctly on the books that you do read, so that might not even help.
Originally posted by cdtm
His logic isn't weird. Because he's using logic.. By his logic, your logic doesn't make sense, because he's actually using logic. He's basing his opinion on Cass from her comics. Seriously, read a Batgirl comic from before her character assassination.And lol at including Wolverine in that list of martial artists.
Lost to Bullseye in the past......shown superiority to him in the future. Plus at that time Bullseye was on a level were he once defeated Daredevil, stalemated Cap, and was very much a threat.
Now a days he gets more losses then wins(like Shiva)
Stalemated Black Widow in hindsight but it was Black Widow who passed out unconscious while Elektra left stealthily and easily because of what "she" did to her.
Stalemated Hercules who had a shield/sword. If this is her worst then you really fail to see the difference between Elektra/Shive here.
No offense to classic Shiva but hopefully NuDc Shiva get back on track.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Lost to Bullseye in the past......shown superiority to him in the future. Plus at that time Bullseye was on a level were he once defeated Daredevil, stalemated Cap, and was very much a threat.Now a days he gets more losses then wins(like Shiva)
Stalemated Black Widow in hindsight but it was Black Widow who passed out unconscious while Elektra left stealthily and easily because of what "she" did to her.
Stalemated Hercules who had a shield/sword. If this is her worst then you really fail to see the difference between Elektra/Shive here.
No offense to classic Shiva but hopefully NuDc Shiva get back on track.
Widow got KOED because she was mortally wounded and was missing a vital organ. What did Elektra do to Widow here?
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691420-07_08_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691425-09_super.jpg
Who other than Cass has beaten Shiva?
Oh I forgot, hercules is all of a sudden an A level martial artist because he stalemated Elektra, isn't he? Marvel fanboys makes me laugh at their transparency. You didn't comment at DD knocking her out in two panels though.
Elektra better watch out for Thing at this rate.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Lost to Bullseye in the past......shown superiority to him in the future. Plus at that time Bullseye was on a level were he once defeated Daredevil, stalemated Cap, and was very much a threat.Now a days he gets more losses then wins(like Shiva).
He also lost to Castle, more then once.
Castle <<< Batman, who never beat a 100% Shiva.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, she beat a C level MA. What's there to bragg about that? He shot Daredevil before that, blindsided Cap in dark with a shovel and a lantern and got destroyed by DD once he was serious. Context buddy.Widow got KOED because she was mortally wounded and was missing a vital organ. What did Elektra do to Widow here?
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691420-07_08_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691425-09_super.jpg
Who other than Cass has beaten Shiva?
Oh I forgot, hercules is all of a sudden an A level martial artist because he stalemated Elektra, isn't he? Marvel fanboys makes me laugh at their transparency. You didn't comment at DD knocking her out in two panels though.
Elektra better watch out for Thing at this rate.
As for the Bullseye vs Cap IIRC going by memory Bullseye held his own and put Steve on the defense with his shield. Context is important but it doesn't change the fact that he was a threat. IIRC this C-lister as you put it held off both Daredevil and Elektra(Scroll retconned) at one time.
Wha? Let me get this right you think people rate hercules as a A-list in hand to hand martial artists and yet he was not even fighting Elektra on those terms.
Not sure how you are putting those two together. What I am seeing is Herc being proficient with a shield and sword. Plus most would argue that a shield and a long range sword has more advantages when fighting some one with small length weapons like a sai anyways. So I fail to see that as a very bad showing for Elektra especially since it was inconclusive.
Now the Black Widow vs Elektra I'll give you that I had forgotten that Widow was wounded prior to fighting Elektra. But again stalemate which is more impressive for BW considering her circumstances but again a inconclusive fight.
Which issue are you speaking about with Daredevil ko'ing Elektra? I guess I have been out of the loop for a while now.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
As for the Bullseye vs Cap IIRC going by memory Bullseye held his own and put Steve on the defense with his shield. Context is important but it doesn't change the fact that he was a threat. IIRC this C-lister as you put it held off both Daredevil and Elektra(Scroll retconned) at one time.Wha? Let me get this right you think people rate hercules as a A-list in hand to hand martial artists and yet he was not even fighting Elektra on those terms.
Not sure how you are putting those two together. What I am seeing is Herc being proficient with a shield and sword. Plus most would argue that a shield and a long range sword has more advantages when fighting some one with small length weapons like a sai anyways. So I fail to see that as a very bad showing for Elektra especially since it was inconclusive.
Now the Black Widow vs Elektra I'll give you that I had forgotten that Widow was wounded prior to fighting Elektra. But again stalemate which is more impressive for BW considering her circumstances but again a inconclusive fight.
Which issue are you speaking about with Daredevil ko'ing Elektra? I guess I have been out of the loop for a while now.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye1.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye2.jpg
Its a non-fight.
Because he was reading and preparing for them for months and knew about all their moves. Recently an absolutely exhausted DD destroyed him.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page19.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Daredevil086page20.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page21.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page22.jpg
Punisher, a C level MA himself has destroyed Lester in h2h. Bullseye is nothing but a C level MA.
Sword-fighting is another measure of skill. Hercules stalemated her and that is humiliating for a supposedly A level MA. Nothing you could say would excuse that.
So a mortally wounded B level MA had Elektra at gun-point and you think that is excusable? LOL.
It was recent. I would check my comics.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Bullseye shoved a lantern in cap's eyes in the dark and injured his leg with a shovel with a surprise attack.http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye1.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye2.jpgIts a non-fight.
Bullseye can be dangerous at times, Cap was still in the fight and normally even with villans getting the advantage on Cap during the start of a fight. Steve normally prevails but this showed how lethal Bullseye could be.
Because he was reading and preparing for them for months and knew about all their moves. Recently an absolutely exhausted DD destroyed him.http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page19.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Daredevil086page20.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page21.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page22.jpgPunisher, a C level MA himself has destroyed Lester in h2h. Bullseye is nothing but a C level MA.
The Punisher fight and that fight volume 4 of Ed's run I believe. Bullseye had more losses and wasn't as much of a threat as volume 1 when he had Killed Elektra and had Daredevil himself worried back then at times.
Now a days he isn't as great that's for sure. So my point still remains. And even now he still pulls some old volume 1 feats like stalemates both Daredevil himself with help from Elektra clone at the same time.
Sword-fighting is another measure of skill. Hercules stalemated her and that is humiliating for a supposedly A level MA. Nothing you could say would excuse that.
Not really since she didn't lost and it was inconclusive. All fights can change at a node.
So a mortally wounded B level MA had Elektra at gun-point and you think that is excusable? LOL.It was recent. I would check my comics.
Depends Elektra seemed to want to get a point across and at the end ordered her to fix this. Stalemate doesn't mean loss and its not like she was losing on points or got a beat down from her.
Now I was told the DD ko was via sneak attack. Could you elaborate or scans of the incident?
Anyways you asked for Shiva's other losses. Lets see...
First there's Prom.....who knocked her straight out in 3 secs.(He had other styles that Shiva didn't know)
Batman putting her down and out rather easily. Yes she might have been mind controlled but it doesn't mean she was not lethal....or competent.
Huntress beating down Shiva IIRC she spat at her eyes or something and gave Shiva a beat down.
Richard Dragon was beating Shiva until Shiva henchmen saved her and then Dragon lost the fight on purpose.
And of course both fights with Cass.
Curious do you have the scans of Daredevil knocking Elektra out and the page prior to see the context?
This has always been what I have thought of Shiva but her rep has finally exceeded her abilities, while Cass is the new Shiva even if she has some bad showings as well. But I view Cass more on equal terms with Elektra then I do Shiva.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Bullseye is B-list.
Black Widow is B-list.Now watch Elektra's fights with them.
There's a reason Elektra was put up against Catwoman in DC vs Marvel.
Well let's see. With Bullseye she got killed but in the rematch she beat him handily, once she quit holding back. Then in one of her next encounters with Bullseye while injured, poisoned, she still defeated him easily.
Next is Black Widow who stalemated Elektra but lets face it Elektra wasn't really out for blood and gave her the task to fix this. Giving her a chance to do so after hearing her side of the story. Which ended in a inconclusive fight its not like BW gave her a "one side" beating or had her one up'ed.
Plus many posters seem to forget this but last I checked BW is enhanced while Elektra is not IIRC. Even with injuries she is a "Super Agent" enhanced by a SSS variant and tech enhanced as well IIRC.
Next is your comparison with Elektra/Catwoman in a voted contest and a cross over. Well truth be told I've never really cared for cross overs and by board rules it's a moot point.
But even with that stated lets look at that statement. Why were they matched up? Lobo was matched up with Wolverine and yet amalgam merged with Batman. Cap was matched up with Batman and yet was merged with Superman.
With that stated I don't think the Cat vs Elektra fight has much relevance, to be honest.
