Lady Shiva vs Elektra

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well let's see. With Bullseye she got killed but in the rematch she beat him handily, once she quit holding back.

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=Bullseye48.jpg

It had nothing to do with her 'holding back' against him, in the way we use that term. Imagine fighting Captain America confidently knowing his style, then he starts grabbing you by the balls and biting your ears mid-fight. It's out of the blue and confusing.

Don't try to excuse her Black Widow showing. They were both obviously trying. If Elektra could have stopped her, she would have:

Black Widow is B-level [at best] and that's not really disputable. I'm being a bit generous with that, but whatever. Her recent fight with Punisher painted her as pretty even, so B is good. Though her older fight with Bullseye paint her lower. On the other hand, Bullseye is Punisher's *****, so take that as it may:

Bullseye has even lost to Crossbones:

Elektra, Bullseye, Black Widow and Punisher are all B-level, with a rock, paper, scissors going on between them.

I must say nice scans Philo. But I disagree.

If Elektra was a B-list.

She would not have stalemated Shang Chi one of marvels definitive best of the best. Which she has also stalemated at times Daredevil to even had him at Sai point stalemate.

Even outside of stalemating Shang and Daredevil. If that's not enough she has stalemated on occasion Logan who is a decent fighter with a incredible stat edge. Not to mention defeating Taskmaster before as well.

She has proven to be a A-list fighter with her record and like I stated defeating Bullseye handily in the rematch and then the time she was kidnapped, injured and poisoned and she still defeated Bullseye.

If Bullseye is a B-list(as you say) then he would stalemate Elektra but as you've shown she indeed defeated him and beat him badly while under a major handicapp the "other" time.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I must say nice scans Philo. But I disagree.

If Elektra was a B-list.

She would not have stalemated Shang Chi one of marvels definitive best of the best. Which she has also stalemated at times Daredevil to even had him at Sai point stalemate.

Even outside of stalemating Shang and Daredevil. If that's not enough she has stalemated on occasion Logan who is a decent fighter with a incredible stat edge. Not to mention defeating Taskmaster before as well.

She has proven to be a A-list fighter with her record.

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_06.jpg
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_07.jpg
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_08.jpg

That's 'meh' at best.

Daredevil has always had a soft spot for Elektra [that's been mentioned even as she is fighting her] - and even so, I don't recall her ever having a clean skill win - there were either traps, Daredevil was injured or the fight got interrupted before reaching its end. Punisher and Bullseye give Daredevil fights, too - but they're still B-list.

Taskmaster is all over the place, and he is not above being beaten by non-A listers [see Moon Knight].

We can agree to disagree whether or not Elektra is B-list, or borderline A-list [that's the best you'll get, because we're not going soley highs here], but fact of the matter is Lady Shiva is the cream of the crop, in terms of skill. Elektra is not winning this.

Originally posted by Philosophía
You can't really call what Elektra and Shang Chi had as a fight ending in stalemate - they basically just took turns throwing stuff at eachother.

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_06.jpg
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_07.jpg
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_08.jpg

That's 'meh' at best.

Which there fight is a stalemate and exactly what I stated. Shang is a prominent fighter so, I doubt you can take much out of that. Especially since they were using lethal weapons to try and impale one another. Indeed Elektra stalemated him like I stated.

Daredevil has always had a soft spot for Elektra [that's been mentioned even as she is fighting her] - and even so, I don't recall her ever having a clean skill win - there were either traps, Daredevil was injured or the fight got interrupted before reaching its end. Punisher and Bullseye give Daredevil fights, too - but they're still B-list.

That goes vice a versa. As Elektra has a soft spot for DD as well as she did have DD at sai point in once encounter that you forget. They give DD fights Puni or Bullsey but DD normaly defeats them in the end. So my statement still stands with Elektra and DD both stalemating one another. Unlike with DD vs Puni or Bullseye.

Taskmaster is all over the place, and he is not above being beaten by non-A listers [see Moon Knight].

And yet he has had the upperhand on Cap but inclusive fights with him in the end. Defeated the Cat(Shang's rival easily), even defeated Elektra herself once, but Elektra beat him back "easily."

We can agree to disagree whether or not Elektra is B-list, or borderline A-list [that's the best you'll get, because we're not going soley highs here], but fact of the matter is Lady Shiva is the cream of the crop, in terms of skill. Elektra is not winning this.

You can disagree just like I disagree that Shiva isn't the top notch like she once was, as her final showings were anything but stellar. In terms of skill and over all record Shiva has gone down more then Elektra. Shiva is not winning this but you can disagree.

Originally posted by Philosophía

Bullseye has even lost to Crossbones:

Elektra, Bullseye, Black Widow and Punisher are all B-level, with a rock, paper, scissors going on between them.

It's funny you should mention Punisher, because she straight up embarrassed him. He couldn't even see Elektra steal his weapon from right out of his hands. Elektra is a step above everyone you mentioned. There's a reason Wolverine considers her the best damned ninja in the world.

Originally posted by Konton
It's funny you should mention Punisher, because she straight up embarrassed him. He couldn't even see Elektra steal his weapon from right out of his hands. Elektra is a step above everyone you mentioned. There's a reason Wolverine considers her the best damned ninja in the world.

Originally posted by Philosophía

Taskmaster is all over the place, and he is not above being beaten by non-A listers [see Moon Knight].

Mr. X B list now?

Seems like he folds every time his precog trick becomes disabled... His gimmicks gone from the deadliest warrior alive, to the unluckiest guy alive with all the "Oh no, my TP's not working again! Down I go!"

The only reason why Elektra is ever able to hang with Daredevil is because he loves her. Anyone who says that Elektra holds back because she feels the same way is full of shit, she kicked him so hard that she nearly broke his neck, and in another instance she kicked a pile of bricks on him while he was in a bear trap and left him to die, that is far from mutual, when Daredevl stopped holding back he took her down in 2 hits

Elektra is trash, she gets mutiliated in this fight

Originally posted by Krewe
The only reason why Elektra is ever able to hang with Daredevil is because he loves her. Anyone who says that Elektra holds back because she feels the same way is full of shit, she kicked him so hard that she nearly broke his neck, and in another instance she kicked a pile of bricks on him while he was in a bear trap and left him to die, that is far from mutual, when Daredevl stopped holding back he took her down in 2 hits

Elektra is trash, she gets mutiliated in this fight

O...o seems like another sock. Elektra had Daredevil at sai point to the face before but didn't make the attempt, to even before Elektra got reconned as a Scrull, even that Elektra put a off gaurd Matt in a hold but instead putting him in a choke or sai in the head. She just held him in place.

So much for your "full of shit" comment.

Not sure what a sock is but...Actually I'm glad you brought that up, before she got retconned into a Skrull Elektra and Daredevil fought Bullseye, Bullseye ended up beating on Elekta and nearly killing her before Daredevil saved her, then when they were fighting on the streets Elektra took more hits than anyone

Retcon aside it's clear the writers don't see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye or and eseiclaly Daredevil, he was even kicking her ass again until he got distracted and told his wife to run away.

Elektra is the absolute definition of a mediocre fighter. Oh well

Originally posted by Krewe
Not sure what a sock is but...Actually I'm glad you brought that up, before she got retconned into a Skrull Elektra and Daredevil fought Bullseye, Bullseye ended up beating on Elekta and nearly killing her before Daredevil saved her, then when they were fighting on the streets Elektra took more hits than anyone

Retcon aside it's clear the writers don't see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye or and eseiclaly Daredevil, he was even kicking her ass again until he got distracted and told his wife to run away.

Elektra is the absolute definition of a mediocre fighter. Oh well

Glad you brought that up even further. As not only did that Bullseye do well against Elektra. But at that specific time he held off both Daredevil and Elektra at the same time.

But like I said a weakened, injured, and poisoned Elektra defeated Bullseye rather easily in the end. So its clear writers see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye even while she is in a severely weakened state. Oh well.....too well.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Bullseye can be dangerous at times, Cap was still in the fight and normally even with villans getting the advantage on Cap during the start of a fight. Steve normally prevails but this showed how lethal Bullseye could be.

This has always been what I have thought of Shiva but her rep has finally exceeded her abilities, while Cass is the new Shiva even if she has some bad showings as well. But I view Cass more on equal terms with Elektra then I do Shiva.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Glad you brought that up even further. As not only did that Bullseye do well against Elektra. But at that specific time he held off both Daredevil and Elektra at the same time.

But like I said a weakened, injured, and poisoned Elektra defeated Bullseye rather easily in the end. So its clear writers see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye even while she is in a severely weakened state. Oh well.....too well.

Elektra was weakened but Bullseye was holding back on her so it all balances it out, but even so, we have Bullseye dominating her on at least 3 occassions where at the very best she was able to beat him one time when he was holding back

History shows that Bullseye>>Elektra

Originally posted by Krewe
Nonsense, Bullseye only lasted as long as he did because Elektra was getting in the way, in fact at one point in that fight Daredevil ended up hitting Elektra

Elektra was weakened but Bullseye was holding back on her so it all balances it out, but even so, we have Bullseye dominating her on at least 3 occassions where at the very best she was able to beat him one time when he was holding back

History shows that Bullseye>>Elektra

To my knowledge Bullseye only beat Elektra conclusively "once" and in the beginning.

Elektra defeated Bullseye the other times.

The one that you claim she beat was not even the real Elektra.

So history shows that Elektra>>>>Bullseye. Bullseye good but lets not be telling lies now.

I'm going with Elektra.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
To my knowledge Bullseye only beat Elektra conclusively "once" and in the beginning.

Elektra defeated Bullseye the other times.

The one that you claim she beat was not even the real Elektra.

So history shows that Elektra>>>>Bullseye. Bullseye good but lets not be telling lies now.

So history shows us that Lester has always held the edge over Elektra

Originally posted by abhilegend
He looks dangerous due to his projectiles. His MA skills are C level at best. You can try to excuse it all you want, it doesn't matter.

So even Daredevil commenting he's too dangerous, giving Cap problems, to killing someone that stalemates Daredevil. This is a C to you back then. Now a days your right and he has gone down. But back then. I disagree with you.

Because he learned all of their moves. It wasn't because he was much of a fighter, he could predict all their moves. He's the same guy overall.

He was destroyed by an exhausted DD. Like I said, you can try to excuse his showings all you want.

I'm not excusing it. Back in volume one he was a thread....now a days.....not so much. But even now a days he can pull some flukes. So my point of him killing Elektra still stands.

It was a mortal herc stalemating Elektra. Its humiliating as hell.

Stalemate which is inconclusive. Plus its not like Elektra was trying to kill the guy notice even when she became invisible she did not try to really incapacitate him.

😂

Another excuse? Keep it coming.

C'mon man. I already stated that showing was more impressive for "Black Widow" in comparison to Elektra. I don't mind be corrected abi....it was you who reminded me that BW was injured to begin with. As I was wrong about that.

But let's not forget BW is a enhanced female with a SSS variant along with nano tech in her body.

Prometheus is a beast. That's like saying losing to amazo is a low showing.

I agree with you Prom is a beast. But how far. Many are beasts ab. Logan is a beast, Super Soldier Cap is a monster. But how far Abi......he is no Pre Crisis Karate Kid.....now. As most other A-lists from DC have fought his other version and done better then 3 secs. Even Huntress put him down(not out) and another dodged his attacks. As Batman did even better then Shiva against his other version from the past.

Let's face it Shiva just got owned in that scene.

I would try.

Cool would like to see it.

Prometheus is a beast. That's like saying losing to amazo is a low showing.

Covered above.

Mindcontrolled characters under-perform all the time. Dismissed.

Not always the case ab. Mind controlled or drug controlled can be actually more dangerous or even blood lusted. Like Ironman was against Cap or Ironfist was against Black Panther. Slade drugging Cass to keep her a incredible fighter on his side.

I don't dismiss unless stated it hindered her abilities

So, disabling her vision and then beating her? Scans of the fight please. Not a valid example either.

The fight was inconclusive but it looked bad for Shiva. It happened during hunter prey. I'll see if I can find you the issue number. Shiva is good but her stock has dropped in my eyes.

Richard Dragon? Are you being serious here? Next yo would say losing to karate kid is a low showing.

It all adds up guy. Batman, Prom, Dragon, even Huntress, and Cass twice. Dragon as well is good but Elektra has stalemated her version of Dragon in Shang-Chi.

The only valid example. So we got what? Prometheus, Batman, Huntress, Cass an RICHARD ****ING DRAGON. Certainly less skilled than Hercules, Bullseye, Black Widow, Kuruyama I guess. Could you be anymore biased?

Bullseye irrelevent since Elektra proved to be his superior. Black Widow a Super Soldier agent that is enhanced while injured stalemated Elektra. Impressive like I stated but the fight was inconclusive. Herc stalemate again inconclusive. Kuruyama could be Stick level for all we know since she was shown to be at a master level. Its not like we've seen her fight the other A-lists to gauge her.

Again no real losses like Shiva.

Like I said, you can't be anymore biased if you tried. Congrats.

I don't think I'm being biased. Because I give Elektra odds over Shiva or note her bad losses? I also give Cass and Batman odds over Shiva now.

While she loses to top names Elektra has stalemated them or won back in the rematch.

Originally posted by Krewe
He beat her in Millers run, he was kicking her ass in her own series before she switched styles, he was kicking her ass when he fought Daredevil and her at the same time, and was about to kill her before Daredevil saved her, and was casually toying with her in Dark Reign

So history shows us that Lester has always held the edge over Elektra

Some biased views there. He did beat her in Millers. Switching styles is irreverent she then defeated Bullseye as your key word for Bullseye is the only thing right..."was". Daredevil saved Skrull Elektra not the real "one" as even that Bullseye performed incredible.

Dark Reign a injured poison Elektra wrecked Bullseye.

Your history is wrong as Elektra showed to be superior to Bullseye in the end.

Hmm..