Originally posted by namorsubby
Has anyone ever not dodged a bullet?Id say her skill has more to do with it than her physical stats.
Barbara.
😛
I mean yeah Shiva is skilled, but since Elektra's resurrection she hasn't lost to anybody in a straight up fight. Unless you count Gorgon, which is to be expected - what with the huge stat disadvantage and all. There was also Taskmaster but their first encounter was more psychological because he was using Daredevil's fighting style to **** with her head.
They're definitely in the same league, they both embarres slightly below A list fighters (Catwoman and Huntress for Shiva; Domino, Punisher, Taskmaster in their second encounter (while fighting a teleporter and some other dude at the same time), Silver Samurai (class 10 btw), Bullseye, Razorfist, Zaran, Fatale for Elektra).
If the skill level is that close and the stats are largely weighted in Elektra's favor... idk I don't see Shiva taking a majority. Throw in Elektra's more exotic mystic ninja telepathy and then I really don't see it.
She can crush a mans skull with one hand using just her grip strength. What's to say she doesn't just get a hand on Shiva, and she's more than capable of that, and snap her bones?
Keep in mind this is a forum fight and she's fighting without plot restraints. Might have saved Black Widow in her own book when she wasn't serious, but we're operating on a different field of play here.
Originally posted by KontonLOL, so we're just randomly throwing out low showings just because we don't like it. Then shiva has never lost because it all happened in a different character's comic. Great logic.
Might have saved Black Widow in her own book when she wasn't serious, but we're operating on a different field of play here.
Originally posted by Konton
There was a lot of plot behind the encounter. Elektra just wanted to get a message across. If she wanted Natasha dead, she wouldn't have even seen it coming.
I don't even know who Kuruyama is, so idk what to think about that.
Hercules didn't beat her in a sword fight, he just broke her sai and then the plot kicked in: enter Zeus. I suppose you could argue that the writer believes Hercules to be a better fighter in that he and Zeus took a dive but again, but it's not like Shiva hasn't gone down embarrassingly. Prometheus took her down in 3 seconds. But enough of low showings.
Now, I'm going to ask you to not look at this like Hercules/Kurawhatsit/Bullseye(sick of mentioning that he hasn't been able to beat her since her first death) beat Elektra and Shiva is better than them so she beats Elektra. Go back a page and look at the list of feats I provided and give me evidence that Shiva can compete with her physically.
I'd wager Elektra's speed alone makes this very very hard for Shiva.
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/oldsmokey_01/EBT/?action=view¤t=DRElektra03-015.jpg
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/oldsmokey_01/EBT/?action=view¤t=DRElektra03-016.jpg
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/oldsmokey_01/EBT/?action=view¤t=DRElektra03-017.jpg
You see that? That is insane reaction/bodily coordination to be able to see the muzzle flash of a sniper rifle and not only register what is happening, but to slink out of the line of fire after the bullet has been shot.
Slightly irrelevant but also awesome:
Originally posted by KontonI just think Shiva is more uber in terms of MA skill and renown. You see other ELITE MAs speak of her like shes god. Bronze tiger called her "unbeatable". I've seen her take on BT and the rest of richard dragons clan simultaneously when she was younger and less skilled.
Barbara.😛
I mean yeah Shiva is skilled, but since Elektra's resurrection she hasn't lost to anybody in a straight up fight. Unless you count Gorgon, which is to be expected - what with the huge stat disadvantage and all. There was also Taskmaster but their first encounter was more psychological because he was using Daredevil's fighting style to **** with her head.
They're definitely in the same league, they both embarres slightly below A list fighters (Catwoman and Huntress for Shiva; Domino, Punisher, Taskmaster in their second encounter (while fighting a teleporter and some other dude at the same time), Silver Samurai (class 10 btw), Bullseye, Razorfist, Zaran, Fatale for Elektra).
If the skill level is that close and the stats are largely weighted in Elektra's favor... idk I don't see Shiva taking a majority. Throw in Elektra's more exotic mystic ninja telepathy and then I really don't see it.
She can crush a mans skull with one hand using just her grip strength. What's to say she doesn't just get a hand on Shiva, and she's more than capable of that, and snap her bones?
Keep in mind this is a forum fight and she's fighting without plot restraints. Might have saved Black Widow in her own book when she wasn't serious, but we're operating on a different field of play here.
Elektra is pretty off the charts though physically. You don't usually see really skilled mas display such such brute strength, especially females.
Idk. Her physically superiority could probably close the gap. I'd still say ANY martial artist that isn't transcendent like KK or Gamora would be hard pressed to beat Shiva for a majority in pure h2h with no added powers
But she has added powers! Her psionic feedback can cause brain hemorrhaging
http://s662.photobucket.com/user/jinzin2008/media/garrotmindraped3.jpg.html
^ Second blue text panel down.
(I forgot that she lost to Drake, but in fairness the character was created with the sole purpose of defeating her and training her up better, while also making her a better, happier person.)
Drake also confirmed that her enhanced physicality is in part due to chi amping in Elektra v2.
Originally posted by Konton
I don't even know who Kuruyama is, so idk what to think about that.Hercules didn't beat her in a sword fight, he just broke her sai and then the plot kicked in: enter Zeus. I suppose you could argue that the writer believes Hercules to be a better fighter in that he and Zeus took a dive but again, but it's not like Shiva hasn't gone down embarrassingly. Prometheus took her down in 3 seconds. But enough of low showings.
Now, I'm going to ask you to not look at this like Hercules/Kurawhatsit/Bullseye(sick of mentioning that he hasn't been able to beat her since her first death) beat Elektra and Shiva is better than them so she beats Elektra. Go back a page and look at the list of feats I provided and give me evidence that Shiva can compete with her physically.
I'd wager Elektra's speed alone makes this very very hard for Shiva.
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/oldsmokey_01/EBT/?action=view¤t=DRElektra03-015.jpg
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/oldsmokey_01/EBT/?action=view¤t=DRElektra03-016.jpg
http://s935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/oldsmokey_01/EBT/?action=view¤t=DRElektra03-017.jpg
You see that? That is insane reaction/bodily coordination to be able to see the muzzle flash of a sniper rifle and not only register what is happening, but to slink out of the line of fire after the bullet has been shot.
Slightly irrelevant but also awesome:
Originally posted by 753
bullseye aint so low on the totem here and he's made a life out of prepping for her.
Originally posted by KontonSomeone who defeated Elektra twice.
[B]I don't even know who Kuruyama is, so idk what to think about that.
Hercules didn't beat her in a sword fight, he just broke her sai and then the plot kicked in: enter Zeus. I suppose you could argue that the writer believes Hercules to be a better fighter in that he and Zeus took a dive but again, but it's not like Shiva hasn't gone down embarrassingly. Prometheus took her down in 3 seconds. But enough of low showings.So "Plot strikes again"? Would you stop whining about anything that doesn't paints Elektra in a good light. So now getting stalemated by hercules is like getting beaten by Prometheus, huh? LMAO.
Now, I'm going to ask you to not look at this like Hercules/Kurawhatsit/Bullseye(sick of mentioning that he hasn't been able to beat her since her first death) beat Elektra and Shiva is better than them so she beats Elektra. Go back a page and look at the list of feats I provided and give me evidence that Shiva can compete with her physically.Really? Did you by any means forget the shadowdragon fight or Supergirl fight?
Also want to know what she does to bullet-timers? Ask Katana
Originally posted by Daredevil1
@abhilegendAlthough I disagreed with a lot of your opinions. I want to thank you for the long civil debate we had with Shiva vs Elektra.
You have earned my respect and hopefully we can have more of them in the future.
Originally posted by Konton
I don't even know who Kuruyama is, so idk what to think about that.]
Abi is right he defeated Elektra and killed Nina(gutted her heart out IIRC) while laughing about hit.
His nick name is the black mountain of the hand and for good reason. Imagine someone with the physique of Cable in a ninja out fit. He fights with lethal chains/hook weapons.
Its hard for me to gauge him since I've never seen him fight the other A-lists of marvel? Unless there are other issues that I don't know about abi?
So far all I know he could potentially dismiss other A-listers as well. But not sure but since he can defeat Elektra its probably a good beat he's a legit threat. Since Elektra is a A-list.
