Originally posted by Nephthys
Swtor.
As usual, your contortionist arguments fail. But kudos at achieving the flexibility required to cram your head up your own ass.
Of course, I've hollowed out your bumhole enough with my massive that it should be quite comfortable, the perpetual breeze notwithstanding. excellent
Get me the exact source by the end of business or I will be forced to collect your concession.
Long response coming:
1/2
Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you know what separates a good debater from a superdebater?
Unfortunately for you one does not have to be super debater to debunk your ,at most mediocre, arguments.
As per the codex 'Anyone who becomes a Darth and lasts longer than a month has clearly earned her position through considerable power and sheer force of will.' Sajar not only became a Darth but became a Dark Council member. So lets not pretend that he was a weakling. The more impressive part is that they fought for several days straight. That's an insane feats.
BTW. The style of argumentation you present here reminds me of a certain board member
Spoiler:
SWL
Also something to consider: That Braga fought Sajar for days might mean that they were equally storing,…. or equally weak…. 😛
Hardly, Tol Braga had never known defeat until that point and given how much of a fight he gave the HoT and that he's bested a Dark Council member he was no noob. He was also the only one who broke Vitiate's mental domination on his own, and was given control of the forces on Corellia by the Emperor ahead of three Dark Council members.
2) He put up a great fight against HoT who may, or may not be around Maul / Savage power level. Not impressive at all.
3) Him breaking the mental domination illustrates perfectly that Vitiate’s over-hyper mental abilities are rendered even more ineffective.
4) Being a leader on an army does not automatically translate to Braga being more powerful in the Force…. This is so obvious it does not need support.
You need to try much harder to show Braga compares to the likes of Maul or Savage (whom Sidious casually Force-pwned).
As of now, nothing suggest that either one of the brothers wouldn’t steamroll over Braga.
Lol, putting the Hero of Tython on the defensive and getting some hits in right before the HoT defeated Vitiate is superior to pretty much any of the brothers feats.
Considering Vitiate was capable of destroying a temple with his TK and he failed to overwhelm the HoT whereas Tol Braga did at one point, its a pretty impressive feat.
Spoiler:😈
I know you do
This illustrates that Vitiate’s TK, when in combat situation applied a relatively powerful Force-user is ….. not impressive at all. If it was, he would have replicated Braga’s feat with ease. And this is DS amped Vitiate…..
Also, I never said that Tol Braga eclipsed their showings. For a start I only said that he was at least on their level and that maybe he was higher.
And Maul wasn't really wounded considering it was his metal leg that was damaged.
Wrong, buddy. That source has been invalidated for quite some time. The Hero of Tython is not canonically inferior to Yoda, and also that's a blatant ABC argument that wouldn't hold up anyway.
Meanwhile…..HoT has nothing in canon or feats that indicate he approaches Yoda/ Sidious level.
Your attempt at making an argument fails miserably.
You're welcome to your opinion. I think I've proven that at the time the Hero of Tython was at least on par with the Zabrak bro's, and also that Tol Braga was too. You should just admit that Vitiate's feat was superior.
You've forgotten what this point is. You were talking about how he obviously could have overpowered Kit, Tiin and Kolar with the Force and acting as if him speed-blitzing them was a Force feat. It isn't, thus his defeat of those 3 is completely irrelevant when we are discussing only the Force side of the debate.
Cool. Concessions accepted.
Wrong. Vader does nothing to equal or even approach Vitiate feat of destroying the Dark Temple. The best thing he does it lift a platform. It's impressive, but the scale is completely below what Vitiate did. Do you know how freaking big the Dark Temple is? I do, I've run through it. It's enormous.Look at the size compared to the people, who are closer to the camera than it btw. Vitiate destroyed that while weakened, exhausted and dying.
Dooku is very skillful in his TK and he is clearly not to be trifled with, yet he is still not comparable to Vitiate. That feat of pwning Ventress shows a lot of skill, but I doubt she was resisting him considering the obvious and debilitating pain she was in. Other than that I believe his most powerful TK feat was lifting those obelisks when he was training Oppress. Again, impressive, but still not close to Vitiate.
Again: Vader has feats that are easily on pair, if not beyond Vitiate’s , and all of them he accomplished without tapping into the DS nexus.
I’ll give you one more chance, and then I consider this matter closed, even if you’re not willing to face the reality.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/darth-vader/748906/?page=1
I advise you specifically to take a look at argument in favor of Vader that Silver 2467 makes, then you may go and cry in to your room.
Some excerpts:
“And on the subject of TK, I find that doubtful. Vader was collapsing cathedrals only months after RotS; he never achieved the height of his powers until decades later. I have never seen Vitiate replicate Vader's telekinetic precision, range, or versatility either.”
“Except that this requires Vitiate to attack first, which would never happen since Vader's combat speed transcends the former's, and requires that Vitiate can even tag Vader with it, which would never happen since Vader can repel it on his lightsaber.”
“Generic destructive telekinetic feats (like destroying his palace or ripping apart T3) are not what I am referring to when I direct you to Vader's feats of precision, technique, or variety. By that, I mean the times Vader has used Crush on a Jedi with multiple hearts, used Lightsaber Throw to spin his lightsaber around himself, redirected missiles, fired blaster rifles while fighting enemies, levitated himself, etc. Beyond that, the "quality" you attribute to Vitiate, destroying buildings, Vader has replicated anyway.”
^ I share Silver2467’s insights on this one.
It is a powerful argument that Vitiate cannot stand in combat to regular!Vader let alone Vader who will tap into a DS Force nexus and thus enhance his powers. All in all Vader is a superior combatant to Vitiate.
Spoiler:
Silver2467 makes also a very convincing arguments that Vader is capable and will very likely defeat Bane
On Dooku, you have failed to understand how his DS nexus feat relates to Vitiate’s power.
Dooku seems to possess much better refinement, mastery, precision and versatile with his TK. Moreover, as he has been seen to causally collapsing caves, lifting giant obelisks with ease, manhandling opponent like Assaji, Savage, Kenobi etc. with TK, all of which he showed without DS nexus enhancing his abilities. His saber skills also eclipse Vitiate’s….
In short, you dismissing Vader and Dooku’s showing is very unwise . I’m sure Dooku, and especially Vader are well –equipped to deal with Vitiate.
Now, if they are also enhanced by DS nexus, Vitiate will be trounced.
2/2
In you dreams maybe. Vitiate has shown a greater capacity and ability with using TK offensively, disintegrating an armored droid with a wave of his hand, as well as more raw power in his destruction of the Dark Temple, while dying. They're simply out of their league.
Now, to this destruction of a temple.
As The_Tempest, and later Mizukage Yoda pointed out, there is no indication that Vitiate actually destroyed this temple, so I join them in his asking you to provide evidence.
If there is none, you should drop this point. Not that it matters, for Vader destroyed a cathedral with his TK, and that was not a DS nexus feat.
Also: WTF? So Vitiate needs to be dying to “destroy” the temple? No problem there, Sidious will grant his this favor quite quickly.
That hasn't been demonstrated because Vitiate has shown he is exceptionally dangerous outside of a DS nexus when he defeated the Jedi Strike Team. Furthermore theres very little (as in, theres the above and thats it) in the way of feats that he's done that people haven't dismissed as being empowered by a DS nexus. You can't demonstrate that because theres nothing outside of him being 'amped.'
In terms of Force Lightning he certainly is unmatched. In terms of his TK though I won't argue that. He is though undoubtedly superior to Vader and Dooku. And strong enough that I doubt Sidious will hold a decisive advantage in that arena.
And once more, don’t be dense and get it through your head: His TK was DS nexus amped. When Vader, Dooku or Sidious will tap into this nexus, Vitiate has nothing on them.
To sum up:
- Vitiate has no combat speed that will put him in the same tier as Sidious.
- His saber-skills are…well, to be generous, not impressive.
- His Force-powers are his most powerful asset, yet their alleged superiority is quickly debunked when one considers they are mostly due to DS nexus enhancing him.
- Still, either regular!Vader or regular!Dooku demonstrate Force-feats of at least the same magnitude, with more versatility, mastery and precision. They are also superior duelists to Vitiate. On a DS nexus they will be logically more impressive. And Sidious is even more powerful than them….
In conclusion, Vitiate with with every page of this debate is stripped of his alleged awesomeness and relegated to the vast crowd of mediocre combatants.
Neph, you’ve failed to provide any evidence that would suggest Vitiate will deal with Sidious, let alone Vader or even Dooku that were brought into equation.
Mizakuge Yoda’s, The Tempest’s and my humble person arguments constantly expose your leaps in logic and impotence of your arguments in favor of Vitiate.
You have been defeated thoroughly. 😎
Unless you greatly improve the quality of your arguments, I’m not interested in continuing this debate.
Originally posted by The_TempestAs usual, your contortionist arguments fail. But kudos at achieving the flexibility required to cram your head up your own ass.
Of course, I've hollowed out your bumhole enough with my massive that it should be quite comfortable, the perpetual breeze notwithstanding. excellent
Get me the exact source by the end of business or I will be forced to collect your concession.
I'm not entirely sure what the end of business is but I'm going to assume that was supposed to be some sort of legitimate ultimatum rather than another typo.
I've given you the source you spaz. Swtor is the source. If you meant the scene or quote then you're outta luck. I just finished that game and I'm going through it again just to satisfy you. Needless to say that I kept Scourge with me basically at all times and maxed out his influence. I can't recall him ever exaggerating or overblowing a situation. He's blunt as hell.
Scourge is a homourless pragmatist who would not exaggerate about this. What would be the point? Hell, not giving the HoT an accurate picture of whats happening would only put them in danger. Furthermore, he was at the time extending his senses to sense the Emperor's death, so he would be completely capable of sensing what the Emperor was doing. He wasn't just talking out of his ass. Moreover, look at the words. 'If I die, everything dies with me', clearly indicating a totality that wouldn't be there if he was merely collapsing the room. And then look at Scourges reply 'The temple is coming apart, we have to leave.' You probably don't know this, but the rest of the Jedi Knights companions were also in the temple fighting, which is why Scourge says 'we' rather than just 'you'. That he would say this indicates again that the destruction is widespread enough to threaten the rest of the party, ergo it was not merely localised destruction. And lastly we see the temple shaking and coming apart.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And yet you can visit the Dark Temple after these events take place as a Sith character can't you? excellent
Nope.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Long response coming:1/2
Cute
Unfortunately for you one does not have to be super debater to debunk your ,at most mediocre, arguments.
Mediocre arguments? Coming from a guy who points to other peoples arguments to do the work for him? You're a joke dude. And now you've got me mad. Better buckle up kid, cuz....
Originally posted by axel_jovan
So….you have [b] no feats backing up how powerful that Sajar really was…. I expected that much. This argument needs substantiation, if you don’t have it, drop it. “Considerable power” is too vague of a statement.BTW. The style of argumentation you present here reminds me of a certain board member
Spoiler:
SWL
“Well X is obviously powerful, coz he was called very powerful and a skilled combatant ZOMG !!!”
You are clearly lost. You can do much better.[/b]
It's called logic you dip. I included that quote to point out that that no-one on the Dark Council is anything but one of the very strongest Sith Lords in the Empire. The Dark Council isn't the TPM Jedi Council, where they let feebs like Coleman Trebor join and are more diplomatic than military. The Sith by their nature are constantly fighting and proving themselves. Darth Howl says on the subject that "It's a Sith's job to try and unseat us." Just becoming a Darth is indicative of considerable power. That Sajar elevated himself up beyond that to become one of the rulers of the Sith Empire is a feat unto itself.
Furthermore, given his age at the time the HoT meets him in Swtor, I'd say he's in his 30's, and that he was converted during the Great Galactic War at least 10 years previously he would have been fairly young at the time. It's impressive that someone of his age could ascend to the highest position in the Empire, indicating that he had no small amount of skill and power.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Also something to consider: That Braga fought Sajar for days might mean that they were equally storing,…. or equally weak…. 😛
Urgh, you're a maroon. Firstly given that Tol Braga was attempting to convert Sajar and succeeded its likely that Braga held the upper edge. Secondly they fought for 3 days. What, are you just too dense to figure out that that's a pretty damn impressive feat. Most fights in SW last minutes. That they were able to keep fighting for so long is indicative of their power and skill.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
1) Because no one able to beat him challenged him, perhaps.
No shit Sherlock. For your next masterful deduction, get out the spyglass and take a gander at the Great Galactic War. Which Tol Braga fought in.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
2) He put up a great fight against HoT who may, or may not be around Maul / Savage power level. Not impressive at all.
This is the HoT who defeated Vitiate. Get the **** outta here with that 'may be around Maul/Savage level' bullshit.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
3) Him breaking the mental domination illustrates perfectly that Vitiate’s over-hyper mental abilities are rendered even more ineffective.
Vitiate's mental abilities can be overcome with time. Revan and Malak did it. I'm not denying that. But Tol Braga didn't brush it off. As he says 'The Emperor destroyed my will with a thought.'
Originally posted by axel_jovan
4) Being a leader on an army does not automatically translate to Braga being more powerful in the Force…. This is so obvious it does not need support.
Don't be stupid. The Emperor needed Tol Braga to succeed in order to conduct his ritual. It only makes sense to put the most powerful person he could in charge to have the greatest chance of success, which is doubly so considering the Hero of Tython has already foiled his genocidal plans twice.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
You need to try much harder to show Braga compares to the likes of Maul or Savage (whom Sidious casually Force-pwned).As of now, nothing suggest that either one of the brothers wouldn’t steamroll over Braga.
Sidious took them by surprise.
What a ridiculous remark. Tol Braga is canonically among the most powerful Jedi in the TOR-era, he's never known failure, he's defeated a Dark Council member and pressed the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy into a defensive position. Get you head of of your ass and into the game because right now you're just making a fool out of yourself.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Not at all, because we know brother’s TK is able to hurl space-craft. Giving trouble to HoT does not translate to beating, or even matching either one of the brothers. They have better TK feats and still they were no match for Sidious.
And Ordus Din shook an entire cave and collapsed a huge tunnel entrance. And the Hero of Tython eclipsed Din as a combatant shortly after that. The HoT beat a Vitiate who demolished a temple and can disintegrate metal.
Yes it does translate into that. Imagine if Maul Force Pushed and disarmed Yoda and made him desperately leap out of the way of a thrown object (which is what Tol Braga did to the HoT). You'd better believe that you'd be pushing that as an extremely impressive feat. Why not so for Tol Braga?
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Which, again, hurts your argument more than it help. Why are you deliberately shooting yourself in the foot… are you taking sick pleasure in pain?Spoiler:😈
I know you doThis illustrates that Vitiate’s TK, when in combat situation applied a relatively powerful Force-user is ….. not impressive at all. If it was, he would have replicated Braga’s feat with ease. And this is DS amped Vitiate…..
Wow, you are just hitting it out of the park with the idiocy here. How the **** does Tol Braga's feat have anything to do with Vitiate looking bad?
Seriously, this argument makes no sense. Firstly most of the fight happened during game-play. So how do you know Vitiate did not replicate Braga's feat? Secondly how does him not doing so indicate Vitiate sucks. It just indicates that Tol Braga is impressive and a good fighter. Also, the HoT did beat Braga, you remember that, right? He merely put up a good fight
Originally posted by axel_jovan
lol You claiming he was higher more or less implies that he has showings that eclipse theirs. He does not. Therefore your point is moot. You disappoint me.
I did not. I claimed that he was at least as powerful as them, therefore Vitiate beating him while beating the HoT and 2 other extremely powerful Jedi is superior to Sidious' feats.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
This is facepalm worthy.
Yeah, I’m sure having a damaged leg actually helped Maul in that situation… are you crazy??
As I'm sure that it hindered him.... not. Why would it, it's not his real leg.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
lol wut? RotS novel indicated otherwise.
The RotS novelisation and that passage in particular is written in third-person limited narration. Look it up. 😉
The quote did not come from an omniscient narrator, rather one who was only privy to Yoda's own thoughts and feelings. Which are not canon in this issue.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
As well as sourcebooks that claim that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history, the same Sidious who got disarmed by Yoda and their Force-fight was pretty much even.Meanwhile…..HoT has nothing in canon or feats that indicate he approaches Yoda/ Sidious level.
Your attempt at making an argument fails miserably.
Irrelevent and also faulty reasoning. Even if Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord, putting up a good fight against him does not mean that Yoda is superior to the HoT. You're ignoring the possibility that the HoT would also put up a good fight against Sidious. I know you don't think s/he would, but that doesn't matter. The mere possibility renders this argument void.
The HoT defeated Vitiate. Ergo he does, fool.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Dafuq? If Sidious Force-pwned to beings that could hurls space-crafts, it follows logically and inescapably that he could overpower beings that didn’t even demonstrate similar Force-feats to the brothers.
But he didn't. Therefore you can't use it as a feat. How can you not get this after I've explained it to you 3 times?
Originally posted by axel_jovan
It is sad that you have not analyzed properly Dooku and Vader’s feats that I have provided.
No, I have. I simply found them to be unconvincing.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Again: Vader has feats that are easily on pair, if not beyond Vitiate’s , and all of them he accomplished without tapping into the DS nexus.I’ll give you one more chance, and then I consider this matter closed, even if you’re not willing to face the reality.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/darth-vader/748906/?page=1
I advise you specifically to take a look at argument in favor of Vader that Silver 2467 makes, then you may go and cry in to your room.
Some excerpts:
“And on the subject of TK, I find that doubtful. Vader was collapsing cathedrals only months after RotS; he never achieved the height of his powers until decades later. I have never seen Vitiate replicate Vader's telekinetic precision, range, or versatility either.”“Except that this requires Vitiate to attack first, which would never happen since Vader's combat speed transcends the former's, and requires that Vitiate can even tag Vader with it, which would never happen since Vader can repel it on his lightsaber.”
“Generic destructive telekinetic feats (like destroying his palace or ripping apart T3) are not what I am referring to when I direct you to Vader's feats of precision, technique, or variety. By that, I mean the times Vader has used Crush on a Jedi with multiple hearts, used Lightsaber Throw to spin his lightsaber around himself, redirected missiles, fired blaster rifles while fighting enemies, levitated himself, etc. Beyond that, the "quality" you attribute to Vitiate, destroying buildings, Vader has replicated anyway.”
^ I share Silver2467’s insights on this one.
It is a powerful argument that Vitiate cannot stand in combat to regular!Vader let alone Vader who will tap into a DS Force nexus and thus enhance his powers. All in all Vader is a superior combatant to Vitiate.Spoiler:
Silver2467 makes also a very convincing arguments that Vader is capable and will very likely defeat Bane
I don't give a **** what Silver says. Make your own arguments. It is pathetic that you chide me on not giving feats and then let someone else make your argument for you. I'm not going to dignify any of this with a response. You want to prove to me that Vader is equal to Vitiate? You prove it.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
On Dooku, you have failed to understand how his DS nexus feat relates to Vitiate’s power.Dooku seems to possess much better refinement, mastery, precision and versatile with his TK. Moreover, as he has been seen to causally collapsing caves, lifting giant obelisks with ease, manhandling opponent like Assaji, Savage, Kenobi etc. with TK, all of which he showed without DS nexus enhancing his abilities. His saber skills also eclipse Vitiate’s….
None of which are as impressive as Vitiates feats. Sure, Dooku has done a lot of impressive stuff, but he's also been in alot more material than Vitiate, who has only appeared a few times and had 3 fights total, one of which was in gameplay. What limited showings he has though elevate him beyond Dooku.
And I don't recall him manhandling Savage with his TK. Quite the opposite in fact..... 😉
Originally posted by axel_jovan
In short, you dismissing Vader and Dooku’s showing is very unwise . I’m sure Dooku, and especially Vader are well –equipped to deal with Vitiate.
Now, if they are also enhanced by DS nexus, Vitiate will be trounced.
Then make a thread. I will crush you there as well.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
2/2Some of this addressed above.
Now, to this destruction of a temple.
As The_Tempest, and later Mizukage Yoda pointed out, there is no indication that Vitiate actually destroyed this temple, so I join them in his asking you to provide evidence.
If there is none, you should drop this point. Not that it matters, for Vader destroyed a cathedral with his TK, and that was not a DS nexus feat.
haermm Oh man, you demand proof from me and then bring up a feat of Vaders purely because Silvers said it happened.
Ok, I'll provide evidence if you do. So tell me, in what source did Vader do that? 🙂
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Also: WTF? So Vitiate needs to be dying to “destroy” the temple? No problem there, Sidious will grant his this favor quite quickly.
I brought up that he was dying because obviously that would diminish his capabilities, making the feat more impressive. As I've said, this effectively nullifies the DS nexus argument since at the time Vitiate was exhausted to the point when he was panting, on his knees and clutching his side and had just suffered a fairly full-on lightsaber wound.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
A Jedi strike team with two unknowns and two Jedi who may, or may not be on level with Maul and Savage, who in turn, were absolutely owned by Sidious.
Those two unknowns were termed as the strongest, most powerful and resolute Jedi in the galaxy.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Vitaite’s TK feats have been rendered much less impressive, for he demonstrated them only due to DS nexus, and even then, regular! Vader or regular! Dooku are at least comparable. Now, stars help Viitiate if he faces someone more powerful than them…..And once more, don’t be dense and get it through your head: His TK was DS nexus amped. When Vader, Dooku or Sidious will tap into this nexus, Vitiate has nothing on them.
See above.
And hey, while you're at it. Why don't you prove that Vitiate only demonstrated them due to DS nexus. Prove that he was boosted at all by the DS nexus.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
To sum up:
- Vitiate has no combat speed that will put him in the same tier as Sidious.
I'm not denying that.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
- His saber-skills are…well, to be generous, not impressive.
They're non-existent.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
- His Force-powers are his most powerful asset, yet their alleged superiority is quickly debunked when one considers they are mostly due to DS nexus enhancing him.
I'd love to see the source that states this.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
- Still, either regular!Vader or regular!Dooku demonstrate Force-feats of at least the same magnitude, with more versatility, mastery and precision.
This argument is done. You've failed utterly to produce anything approaching Vitiate. I'll ignore every other mention of this until you actually start doing so.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
In conclusion, Vitiate with with every page of this debate is stripped of his alleged awesomeness and relegated to the vast crowd of mediocre combatants.
Sure, mediocre. A mediocre Sith ruled for 1300 years. Whatever you say bro.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Neph, you’ve failed to provide any evidence that would suggest Vitiate will deal with Sidious, let alone Vader or even Dooku that were brought into equation.
Mizakuge Yoda’s, The Tempest’s and my humble person arguments constantly expose your leaps in logic and impotence of your arguments in favor of Vitiate.
You have been defeated thoroughly. 😎Unless you greatly improve the quality of your arguments, I’m not interested in continuing this debate.
That you would dare to speak that way to me is indicative of your utter thoughtlessness. You are beneath me and your arguments are laughable. I wish it were Mizukage responding, that guys actually smart, if a mite too stubborn.
And, if you actually had a brain, you would recall that I haven't claimed that Vitiate would win. If anything I've been leaning towards Sidious. His speed advantage is huge. The only thing I've argued is that Vitiate is likely Sidious' superior in raw Force powers. But I suppose it is too much to ask to expect you to remember that considering...... you're the one who challenged that position in the first place. Whoops.
Way to keep up son. 👆
Nephthys
I'm not entirely sure what the end of business is but I'm going to assume that was supposed to be some sort of legitimate ultimatum rather than another typo.I've given you the source you spaz. Swtor is the source. If you meant the scene or quote then you're outta luck. I just finished that game and I'm going through it again just to satisfy you. Needless to say that I kept Scourge with me basically at all times and maxed out his influence. I can't recall him ever exaggerating or overblowing a situation. He's blunt as hell.
Scourge is a homourless pragmatist who would not exaggerate about this. What would be the point? Hell, not giving the HoT an accurate picture of whats happening would only put them in danger. Furthermore, he was at the time extending his senses to sense the Emperor's death, so he would be completely capable of sensing what the Emperor was doing. He wasn't just talking out of his ass. Moreover, look at the words. 'If I die, everything dies with me', clearly indicating a totality that wouldn't be there if he was merely collapsing the room. And then look at Scourges reply 'The temple is coming apart, we have to leave.' You probably don't know this, but the rest of the Jedi Knights companions were also in the temple fighting, which is why Scourge says 'we' rather than just 'you'. That he would say this indicates again that the destruction is widespread enough to threaten the rest of the party, ergo it was not merely localised destruction. And lastly we see the temple shaking and coming apart.
That was a rather lengthy way of saying Scourge could very well be exaggerating and you haven't any source to confirm the temple's destruction.
End of business is a term used in the United States that refers to a company's hours of operation.
Neph
This is the HoT who defeated Vitiate. Get the **** outta here with that 'may be around Maul/Savage level' bullshit.
Neph
Even if Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord, putting up a good fight against him does not mean that Yoda is superior to the HoT.
😐
[1/4
Neph, me pointing out that you construct mediocre arguments wasn’t meant to be a challenge for you to come back and present even more mediocre ones….
I told you I’m not interested in continuing this debate if you will go down that path. However, I will make an exception this time because the amount of fail in your last posts that begs to be addressed.
So… little pony still mad? 😆
Originally posted by Nephthys
Mediocre arguments? Coming from a guy who points to [b]other peoples arguments to do the work for him?
I don't give a **** what Silver says. Make your own arguments. It is pathetic that you chide me on not giving feats and then let someone else make your argument for you. I'm not going to dignify any of this with a response. You want to prove to me that Vader is equal to Vitiate? You prove it. [/B]
I begin to see why The_Tempest doesn’t take you seriously, but rather views you as a toy that he uses for sexual arousal.
Spoiler:
I know he even takes pleasure in reading this, sick bastard. 😛
If an argument is valid, it is only natural that it will be used to support the structure of other arguments. This is how all the sciences and humanities work, and how a debate works.
One does not have to “reinvent the wheel” every time one wants to construct an argument. This would literally mean no progress in anything and an infinite stagnation, because everyone would need to start out anew.
I’d say the quality of a good argumentation depends also on the ability to use the wisdom of others.
Silver’s argument is perfect to complete my line of argumentation, and there is no need to fix what isn’t broken, especially that he has given so much time and thought to assemble the evidence.
The fact that you don’t like it because it demolishes your claims is simply your problem.
Oh…. I’m sorry, I guess it’s a personal matter for you.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Silver2467, the Star Wars scholar who kicked Nephthys's ass almost as effortlessly as I do,
Also, on the topic of being personal….. WTF is this sh1t??
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's called logic you dip.
…
Get the **** outta here
…
Ergo he does, fool.
…
if you actually had a brain,
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not going to dignify any of this with a response
…
That you would dare to speak that way to me is indicative of your utter thoughtlessness. You are beneath me and your arguments are laughable.
But seriously, this behavior is startling, especially given your recent declaration:
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, and I've apologized for them. They're why I'm telling you to back off, not out of guilt, but because I know how stupid and immature it is to treat someone like that just because they don't believe the things you believe. Grow up. I did.
2/4
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's called logic you dip. I included that quote to point out that that no-one on the Dark Council is anything but one of the very strongest Sith Lords in the Empire. The Dark Council isn't the TPM Jedi Council, where they let feebs like Coleman Trebor join and are more diplomatic than military. The Sith by their nature are constantly fighting and proving themselves. Darth Howl says on the subject that "It's a Sith's job to try and unseat us." Just becoming a Darth is indicative of considerable power. That Sajar elevated himself up beyond that to become one of the rulers of the Sith Empire is a feat unto itself.
Furthermore, given his age at the time the HoT meets him in Swtor, I'd say he's in his 30's, and that he was converted during the Great Galactic War at least 10 years previously he would have been fairly young at the time. It's impressive that someone of his age could ascend to the highest position in the Empire, indicating that he had no small amount of skill and power.
Urgh, you're a maroon. Firstly given that Tol Braga was attempting to convert Sajar and succeeded its likely that Braga held the upper edge. Secondly [b]they fought for 3 days. What, are you just too dense to figure out that that's a pretty damn impressive feat. Most fights in SW last minutes. That they were able to keep fighting for so long is indicative of their power and skill.
No shit Sherlock. For your next masterful deduction, get out the spyglass and take a gander at the Great Galactic War. Which Tol Braga fought in.
Don't be stupid. The Emperor needed Tol Braga to succeed in order to conduct his ritual. It only makes sense to put the most powerful person he could in charge to have the greatest chance of success, which is doubly so considering the Hero of Tython has already foiled his genocidal plans twice.
What a ridiculous remark. Tol Braga is canonically among the most powerful Jedi in the TOR-era, he's never known failure, he's defeated a Dark Council member and pressed the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy into a defensive position. Get you head of of your ass and into the game because right now you're just making a fool out of yourself. [/B]
BTW There’s a thread where Braga undertakes a gauntlet. Make the case for him there. As of now, I don’t see how Braga is on par with Maul/Savage either in sabers or Force-powers.
Originally posted by Nephthys
This is the HoT who defeated Vitiate. Get the **** outta here with that 'may be around Maul/Savage level' bullshit.
If there were any grudges about visuals of RotS fight Mace vs. Sidious, this fight takes it to another level.
YouTube video
At 2:53 you can clearly see that the temple is still standing after Vitiate’s death….
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious took them by surprise.
I recall that in another thread you agreed that Sidious Force-pwns them, does it mean you’ve changed your mind?
Originally posted by Nephthys
And Ordus Din shook an entire cave and collapsed a huge tunnel entrance. And the Hero of Tython eclipsed Din as a combatant shortly after that. The HoT beat a Vitiate who demolished a temple and can disintegrate metal.
And no, defeating Vitiate, who is a mediocre combatant (as pointed out over and over again) is not an end-all-feats feat. It is impressive, but still we need substantiation on HoT combat abilities. We cannot get it from his clash with a combatant, who is solely a Force-monkey, and who cannot even attain combat speed comparable to Vader / Sidious and co.
3/4
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes it does translate into that. Imagine if Maul Force Pushed and disarmed Yoda and made him desperately leap out of the way of a thrown object (which is what Tol Braga did to the HoT). You'd better believe that you'd be pushing that as an extremely impressive feat. Why not so for Tol Braga?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Seriously, this argument makes no sense. Firstly most of the fight happened during game-play. So how do you know Vitiate did not replicate Braga's feat?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Secondly how does him not doing so indicate Vitiate sucks. It just indicates that Tol Braga is impressive and a good fighter.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I did not. I claimed that he was at least as powerful as them, therefore Vitiate beating him while beating the HoT and 2 other extremely powerful Jedi is superior to Sidious' feats.
I’m especially curious how you’ll defend the idea that Braga is ”extremely powerful”…. Good luck.
Spoiler:
I call it BS btw.
Originally posted by Nephthys
As I'm sure that it hindered him.... not. Why would it, it's not his real leg.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The RotS novelisation and that passage in particular is written in third-person limited narration. Look it up. 😉
The quote reads:
“Finally, he saw the truth. This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...” (taken from RotS novel)
1) While the novel is indeed mostly written in 3rd person limited narration, just right after “that he” Stover makes a description of what “he” is.
2) Even if the above is not the case, and the realization is purely from Yoda’s perspective (I doubt it), still Stover call it “the truth,” as in, something that is absolutely true.
3) Even is somehow this quote is invalidated (I highly doubt it) the highest form of canon, RotS movie, shows Yoda and Sidious fighting evenly. This is also corroborated by RotS script, which even has Yoda disarming Sidious.
Neph, you will have a hard time convincing anyone here that RotS Yoda = RotS Sidious is not true. They’re equals.
Are you seriously trying to argue against it?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Irrelevent and also faulty reasoning. Even if Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord, putting up a good fight against him does not mean that Yoda is superior to the HoT.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're ignoring the possibility that the HoT would also put up a good fight against Sidious. I know you don't think s/he would, but that doesn't matter. The mere possibility renders this argument void.
HoT defeated average combatant with no speed feats a.k.a. Vitiate, thus there is [Neph]a mere possibility[/Neph] a near certainty that HoT will not match up with Sidious in any form of a fight.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The HoT defeated Vitiate. Ergo he does, fool.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But he didn't. Therefore you can't use it as a feat. How can you not get this after I've explained it to you 3 times?
I’m not using this as a feat BTW, I’m using Sidious pwning Maul and Savage in the Force as a feat, and by extension, I claim that Sidious might very well do it to Fisto, Kolar, Tiin.
You will have hard time convincing anyone that this is not the case.
BTW Even you unwittingly agree with me on this. After all according to your logic, all what is needed is [Neph] mere possibility [/Neph], right? 😆
4/4
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, I have. I simply found them to be unconvincing.
However, I advise you to suit up and accept it, otherwise it will bite you in the ass. And that would mean that The_Tempest will have to put up with your butt looking all battered.
Originally posted by Nephthys
None of which are as impressive as Vitiates feats. Sure, Dooku has done a lot of impressive stuff, but he's also been in alot more material than Vitiate, who has only appeared a few times and had 3 fights total, one of which was in gameplay. What limited showings he has though elevate him beyond Dooku.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And I don't recall him manhandling Savage with his TK. Quite the opposite in fact..... 😉
Originally posted by Nephthys
Then make a thread. I will crush you there as well.
The only thing that will be crushed is your tiny bit of pride left and your questionable “debating skills”. Yield now or be ready for inevitable ass-whopping in the future. And not in a kinky way. excellent
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh man, you demand proof from me and then bring up a feat of Vaders purely because Silvers said it happened.
Ok, I'll provide evidence if you do. So tell me, in what source did Vader do that? 🙂
Done.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I brought up that he was dying because obviously that would diminish his capabilities, making the feat more impressive. As I've said, this effectively nullifies the DS nexus argument since at the time Vitiate was exhausted to the point when he was panting, on his knees and clutching his side and had just suffered a fairly full-on lightsaber wound.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Those two unknowns were termed as the strongest, most powerful and resolute Jedi in the galaxy.
Hype is hype, and will not help them while facing combatants with quantifiable feats.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And hey, while you're at it. Why don't you prove that Vitiate only demonstrated them due to DS nexus. Prove that he was boosted at all by the DS nexus.
Every Dark Sider is more impressive on a DS world: Bane, Zannah, Dooku… Why would it be any different with Vitiate? This is a matter that you would have to prove.
Moreover, if Vitiate was living so long on a DS nexus and not tapping into its power….well, his mental capabilities would certainly be in question. 😛
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sure, mediocre. A mediocre Sith ruled for 1300 years. Whatever you say bro.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
In conclusion, Vitiate with every page of this debate is stripped of his alleged awesomeness and relegated to the vast crowd of mediocre combatants.
Originally posted by Nephthys
you're the one who challenged that position in the first place. Whoops.
From the beginning I was skeptical if Vitiate will be able to take Sidious in the Force alone, and as the debate unfolded and evidence was presented, I become even more skeptical if he can take Dooku/Vader level combatant. That is all. excellent
But kudos to you for trying to end your mumblings on a high note.
Now Neph, be honest, you’ve been using your brother’s weed-covered notebook atm again…. 🙁