Would Naruto be weak without the nine tails and sage mode?

In my opinion Naruto would have gotten no stronger than Kakashi without the nine tailed fox and sage mode and would be dead by now without them. As much as I like Naruto he would never have been able to beat a lot of the real villains he has fought with out taking power from an other source of chakra like the nine tails chakra and the nature chakra for sage mode, heck even in the movies when he doesn't transform he still has to infuse power or chakra from an outside source with his rasengan to topple the villain.
But this is only my opinion, what do you guys think?

Strength, speed and skill on Kakashi's level his high Uzumaki chakra. Still has access to Shadow Clones for combat and intel, and Rasengan variants (though with his own chakra he could probably onlu pull off one RasenShuriken).

Base Naruto is still an A level ninja, like Neji, Garaa and Sasori.

Most of the ninjas above A+ have their own traits just like Sage Mode and the given Kyubii. Sharingan/Rinnegan, Chakra gates, Bloodline abilities and other special things.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Strength, speed and skill on Kakashi's level his high Uzumaki chakra. Still has access to Shadow Clones for combat and intel, and Rasengan variants (though with his own chakra he could probably onlu pull off one RasenShuriken).

Base Naruto is still an A level ninja, like Neji, Garaa and Sasori.

Most of the ninjas above A+ have their own traits just like Sage Mode and the given Kyubii. Sharingan/Rinnegan, Chakra gates, Bloodline abilities and other special things.

that is true. if you take away their other abiltieis like kekkai genkai and super modes, then Naruto is still pretty strong too even without the kyuubi or sage mode, though some of his attacks aren't as effective in base form.

He wouldn't be "weak" but if hadn't had nine tails he wouldn't have gotten very far in the manga. Sasuke most certainly would have killed him.

Originally posted by Damborgson
He wouldn't be "weak" but if hadn't had nine tails he wouldn't have gotten very far in the manga. Sasuke most certainly would have killed him.

He'd be dead without the Nine Tails.

Haku would have killed him.

Haku was a pacifist so probably not.

Anyway it's likely Naruto just flat out wouldn't be a ninja. He has no talent for chakra control and his chakra would be much lower without it. The only technique Naruto seemed to have down pat was the transformation technique, which is actually a very useful move.

But assuming he does have the same large chakra given his parents then he'll retain the ability to use clones. He'd lose to Haku but given the nature of the guy he'd survive. After that comes the Chunin Exams and yeah Orochimaru would probably kill him since there is no reason to leave him alive. If that happened Sasuke might actually awaken his MS very early since Naruto was the closest person to him.

Assuming Orochimaru doesn't kill him then he loses to Neji in the first round of the Chunin Exams and dies for certain against Gaara in the forest, meaning Jiraiya would have to be the one to stop him.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
In my opinion Naruto would have gotten no stronger than Kakashi without the nine tailed fox and sage mode and would be dead by now without them. As much as I like Naruto he would never have been able to beat a lot of the real villains he has fought with out taking power from an other source of chakra like the nine tails chakra and the nature chakra for sage mode, heck even in the movies when he doesn't transform he still has to infuse power or chakra from an outside source with his rasengan to topple the villain.
But this is only my opinion, what do you guys think?

No access to Kurama's chakra means no Tajuu Kage Bunshin no Jutsu, and therefore no early use of Rasengan, no use of the Elemental variants, and no Giant Toad Summons.

He'd still work extremely hard to master ninjutsu, particularly Wind Release Jutsu. The only thing is it would take a much longer time as he could not create hundreds of clones and maintain them under stress for long periods of time.
I guess he could become as strong as Kakashi (pre-Sharingan) somewhere down the line if and when he became a Jounin.

Oh, and gais, remember that whatshisface dude who Naruto thrashed with the Tajuu Kage Bunshin no jutsu right after he mastered it? Yeah, he'd be the one who kills Naruto.

How do we know which things he can do under his own power and which he needs Kurama for?

Kakashi would be dead without that eye his best friend gave him.

Sasuke would be dead without that curse mark Oro gave him.

what is your point?

Naruto may eventually get to S-class simply based on being an Uzumaki, having great shape control (something he inherited from his dad), and developing his techniques. It'd just take much longer.

Originally posted by BloodRain
How do we know which things he can do under his own power and which he needs Kurama for?

He needed Kurama's chakra to summon a Giant Toad, and it was thanks to Kurama that he could make thousands of shadow clones in the first place, which is what helped him combine Wind chakra and the Rasengan. It is also due to Kurama's chakra mixing in with his own chakra, that his own chakra reserves have increased, and are so damn high. Without Kurama, he'd probably be somewhere closer to Orochimaru at best in terms of chakra. Couple that with the shitty chakra control he had in Part 1 and the earlier parts of Part 2, and yeah.

I don't recall if he used hundreds of Shadow Clones to master Rasengan though. Probably not.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

I don't recall if he used hundreds of Shadow Clones to master Rasengan though. Probably not.

It looked more like he just tried repeatedly himself.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Haku was a pacifist so probably not.

Anyway it's likely Naruto just flat out wouldn't be a ninja. He has no talent for chakra control and his chakra would be much lower without it. The only technique Naruto seemed to have down pat was the transformation technique, which is actually a very useful move.

But assuming he does have the same large chakra given his parents then he'll retain the ability to use clones. He'd lose to Haku but given the nature of the guy he'd survive. After that comes the Chunin Exams and yeah Orochimaru would probably kill him since there is no reason to leave him alive. If that happened Sasuke might actually awaken his MS very early since Naruto was the closest person to him.

Assuming Orochimaru doesn't kill him then he loses to Neji in the first round of the Chunin Exams and dies for certain against Gaara in the forest, meaning Jiraiya would have to be the one to stop him.

His chakra control problems actually came from Kyuubi, so without Kyuubi, he probably does fine. Even without Kurama, his chakra was at least 4 times Kakashi's iirc, and based off of Kakashi's showings, that's enough to handle most people.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No access to Kurama's chakra means no Tajuu Kage Bunshin no Jutsu, and therefore no early use of Rasengan, no use of the Elemental variants, and no Giant Toad Summons.

He'd still work extremely hard to master ninjutsu, particularly Wind Release Jutsu. The only thing is it would take a much longer time as he could not create hundreds of clones and maintain them under stress for long periods of time.
I guess he could become as strong as Kakashi (pre-Sharingan) somewhere down the line if and when he became a Jounin.

Oh, and gais, remember that whatshisface dude who Naruto thrashed with the Tajuu Kage Bunshin no jutsu right after he mastered it? Yeah, he'd be the one who kills Naruto.

Did it ever state anywhere that Naruto needed Kurama do to mass clones? He's been able to do it since the early chapters of the manga. He didn't ever need Kurama until Haku, who was a pretty powerful ninja at the time.

Without Kurama, he wouldn't have been hated by everyone, would still have his parents (One being one of the top geniuses in the manga), which means expert instruction in techniques, and his already high chakra levels due to bloodline. so basically, he could have been a potential Minato with even higher chakra stores. 😛 He'd have been fine.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He'd be dead without the Nine Tails.

Haku would have killed him.

I thought that too, but seeing as how Haku chose not to kill Sasuke, I assume he'd have done the same with Naruto. He'd have killed them both from the get go had he felt like it.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Exactly, if he didn't have the the nine tails chakra or sage mode his hand to hand combat would only be on Kakashi's level and he would only just be able to use the giant rasengan with out the nine tails chakra or nature chakra by now.

yeah...he wouldn't have learned Rasenshuriken imo, and he'd probably be busting out the odama rasengan as his big move.

I think he'd be a jonin but not quite kakashi.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
In my opinion Naruto would have gotten no stronger than Kakashi without the nine tailed fox and sage mode and would be dead by now without them. As much as I like Naruto he would never have been able to beat a lot of the real villains he has fought with out taking power from an other source of chakra like the nine tails chakra and the nature chakra for sage mode, heck even in the movies when he doesn't transform he still has to infuse power or chakra from an outside source with his rasengan to topple the villain.
But this is only my opinion, what do you guys think?

Originally posted by Damborgson
I thought that too, but seeing as how Haku chose not to kill Sasuke, I assume he'd have done the same with Naruto. He'd have killed them both from the get go had he felt like it.

yeah...he wouldn't have learned Rasenshuriken imo, and he'd probably be busting out the odama rasengan as his big move.

I think he'd be a jonin but not quite kakashi.

Haku probably would have merced them both. So what? It's not his thing, end of story. naruto wouldn't have died either way.

Yes he would have. Nothing suggests he had to have Kuraama's help to complete it. he only used a couple of clones to perfect, which is well, well, with his capabilities solo to do so.

Sage mode was actually hindered by Kuraama so he would still have that. All sage mode requires is high chakra amounts (he's an uzamaki), ant the instruction of your summons. Without Kuraama he would have been able to use Ma and Pa and have no time lime on his Sage mode with more Sage mode clones. He'd still kick ass

Originally posted by psycho gundam
naruto would have hanged himself by age 13

If Sasuke hasn't hanged himself yet, I'm Naruto would have been fine.