naruto really didn't have much going for him power wise minus the kyuubi. he hasn't even really shown any uzumaki anything nor embraced any of their scrolls or clan techs so far, nor has he shown too much interest alongside strict kyuubi training.
like stated earlier, all of his abilities are based on how much time he can shave off with his shadow clones, an ability afforded to him by being able to multiply himself a thousandfold cause of kyuubi chackra
It's not only because of kyuubi chakra. Kakashi could make several with his chakra. narutos, as a child, had at least 4 times that. Besides, who knows what techs naruto could have learned with others helping him from birth and no Kurama to screw with his chakra control. Besides he made several strides as a teen with the sole goal of not relying on kyuubi chakra. Sage mode is one of them.
Originally posted by socool8520i think you mean naruto mastering sexy no jutsu, a derivative of transforming into the guise of someone else. he trained to do the clone technique really hard, but the amount he can create is due to his massive reservoir the kyuubi granted
It's not only because of kyuubi chakra. Kakashi could make several with his chakra. narutos, as a child, had at least 4 times that. Besides, who knows what techs naruto could have learned with others helping him from birth and no Kurama to screw with his chakra control. Besides he made several strides as a teen with the sole goal of not relying on kyuubi chakra. Sage mode is one of them.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Lol Kurama didn't screw with Naruto's chakra control. Naruto is just really shit at it. The soul exception being matching his chakra with others because it fits the theme and such.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v10/c090/8.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v11/c091/12.html
These scans imply that Kurama had a lot to do with his chakra control issues. Once they got along, you're right his genius in chakra control came out and now he can manipulate it 😛
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i think you mean naruto mastering sexy no jutsu, a derivative of transforming into the guise of someone else. he trained to do the clone technique really hard, but the amount he can create is due to his massive reservoir the kyuubi granted
he also trained to do the kage bunshin really hard and gasp......he mastered it. Just like everything else. Eevn with Kurama, he would still be able to use ass clones. Maybe not for as long, but he would still be able to do it. If he had such low chakra, Kurama would have been able to take him over long ago when using kage bunshin, since he also has to have enough chakra to combat kurama.
Originally posted by socool8520
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v10/c090/8.htmlhttp://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v11/c091/12.html
These scans imply that Kurama had a lot to do with his chakra control issues. Once they got along, you're right his genius in chakra control came out and now he can manipulate it 😛
The former scan pretty much proves that he has so much chakra because of the Kyubi. Without it, no clones.
And the second scan has nothing to do with anything. The Kyuubi wasn't messing with his chakra control, the seal Orochimaru placed on his was.
How good would Naruto's chakra control be without the Kyuubi? No one can tell because Naruto has never been without it. But we do know his natural chakra levels would be much lower.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
The former scan pretty much proves that he has so much chakra because of the Kyubi. Without it, no clones.And the second scan has nothing to do with anything. The Kyuubi wasn't messing with his chakra control, the seal Orochimaru placed on his was.
How good would Naruto's chakra control be without the Kyuubi? No one can tell because Naruto has never been without it. But we do know his natural chakra levels would be much lower.
It's not debated he would have more chakra without Kurama. just that he would still be able to do mass clones.
It also proves it makes it harder to control, which is what I was saying. Second proves, with Oro's intervention it was even harder for him to control.
And yet much higher than everyone else besides Kisame. Hate all you want, Naruto would still kick ass without Kurama. Without Kurama, Naruto would have had a family and things could have turned out much different.
Originally posted by socool8520
It's not debated he would have more chakra without Kurama. just that he would still be able to do mass clones.It also proves it makes it harder to control, which is what I was saying. Second proves, with Oro's intervention it was even harder for him to control.
And yet much higher than everyone else besides Kisame. Hate all you want, Naruto would still kick ass without Kurama. Without Kurama, Naruto would have had a family and things could have turned out much different.
It says point blank that the Kyuubi is at the root of his stamina. Without it and his stamina goes to more or less normal. Sure you can make the argument that because he's an Uzumaki his chakra should be nice and high but then I'd just point at Karin.
Anyone's chakra controlling is going to suffer if someone screws with it.
Again, it's because of the Kyuubi that he has such natural stamina. And I love how disagreeing with you means I'm hating on the character. Also the OP isn't asking what Naruto would be like if he had his family instead of Kurama and Sage Mode. It's asking what Naruto would be like without them, meaning in this scenario his parents are still dead.
Karin has never really had a fight, but still has the chakra to heal people who should be dead cough cough..Sasuke..cough cough. Not to mention nagato and Kushina, so I can't quite agree with you there.
So you agree, Kurama and Oro screwed with it, thus making it hard to control. Not so hard is it?
If Naruto didn't have Kurama, then his parents would still be alive, but I get your point. Sage mode is a stupid removal in my pinion as he got that on his own. Without Kurama.
Originally posted by socool8520
Karin has never really had a fight, but still has the chakra to heal people who should be dead cough cough..Sasuke..cough cough. Not to mention nagato and Kushina, so I can't quite agree with you there.So you agree, Kurama and Oro screwed with it, thus making it hard to control. Not so hard is it?
If Naruto didn't have Kurama, then his parents would still be alive, but I get your point. Sage mode is a stupid removal in my pinion as he got that on his own. Without Kurama.
Karin is one of the weakest ninja with a name. Nagato had the Rinnegan and Kushina had the Kyuubi sealed in her in the same way as Naruto. Without it she likely wouldn't have been as strong as we saw.
No, I agree that Orochimaru screwed with it. I'm not really seeing how Kurama has ever negatively affected Naruto's chakra control by just existing. He didn't let him go Sage Mode but that's about it.
It is but then again I always hated how Naruto mastered Sage Mode in under a week and made Jiraiya look like basically the shittiest learner alive.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Karin is one of the weakest ninja with a name. Nagato had the Rinnegan and Kushina had the Kyuubi sealed in her in the same way as Naruto. Without it she likely wouldn't have been as strong as we saw.No, I agree that Orochimaru screwed with it. I'm not really seeing how Kurama has ever negatively affected Naruto's chakra control by just existing. He didn't let him go Sage Mode but that's about it.
It is but then again I always hated how Naruto mastered Sage Mode in under a week and made Jiraiya look like basically the shittiest learner alive.
This doesn't disprove the fact that she could lend enough chakra to save a pwned, dying Sasuke with an effing hole in his chest. Regardless of what Nagato had, he still had massive chakra reserves to bring back every dead person in Konoha. After fighting a ninja with crazy reserves himself. Kushina was still able to make chakra chains capable of tying up the 9 tails for a moment after giving birth. Nuff said.
Basically, Naruto would have had to deal with two Different types of chakra in his body. How can you not see where that would be hard to control? And because Ebisu said so.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less true. He is a genius of learning through his body. kind of his strong point. He did learn Kage bunshin in a day, and rasengan in a week. Come on. I hate current Madara, but as much as it pains me to say it, he is no. 1 right now until Naruto comes up with something new.
Originally posted by socool8520
This doesn't disprove the fact that she could lend enough chakra to save a pwned, dying Sasuke with an effing hole in his chest. Regardless of what Nagato had, he still had massive chakra reserves to bring back every dead person in Konoha. After fighting a ninja with crazy reserves himself. Kushina was still able to make chakra chains capable of tying up the 9 tails for a moment after giving birth. Nuff said.Basically, Naruto would have had to deal with two Different types of chakra in his body. How can you not see where that would be hard to control? And because Ebisu said so.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less true. He is a genius of learning through his body. kind of his strong point. He did learn Kage bunshin in a day, and rasengan in a week. Come on. I hate current Madara, but as much as it pains me to say it, he is no. 1 right now until Naruto comes up with something new.
But she doesn't heal them to full strength and it leaves her tuckered out. Her feats simply aren't that big. Having the Rinnegan means you can basically gather as much chakra as you want and once again Kushina's power comes from having the Kyuubi be a part of her for so long. It doesn't matter if at the time it was outside her.
Well no because Naruto basically ignored the second chakra completely.
Kage Bushin in a day is fine. Rasengan in a couple of weeks in fine. Making the Rasenshuriken is fine. The latter two required Naruto just get creative and work around his own natural failings to do something impossible and that's nice. Naruto didn't really have to do that with Sage Mode. He just out and out mastered it and made Jiraiya look really pathetic by comparison lol.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
But she doesn't heal them to full strength and it leaves her tuckered out. Her feats simply aren't that big. Having the Rinnegan means you can basically gather as much chakra as you want and once again Kushina's power comes from having the Kyuubi be a part of her for so long. It doesn't matter if at the time it was outside her.Well no because Naruto basically ignored the second chakra completely.
Kage Bushin in a day is fine. Rasengan in a couple of weeks in fine. Making the Rasenshuriken is fine. The latter two required Naruto just get creative and work around his own natural failings to do something impossible and that's nice. Naruto didn't really have to do that with Sage Mode. He just out and out mastered it and made Jiraiya look really pathetic by comparison lol.
So what? She saved him from dying! This isn't like Sakura with the fish, this was a person, with severe, severe, injuries. And like you said, that was from a relatively weak Uzamaki.
i must have missed the part where the rinnegan gives you infinite chakra because there is nothing I have read that has lead me to believe that it gives you more. That was all Uzamaki blood as far as I can tell.
On the Kushina thing....What? Of course it matters if she was separated. How in the world could you incorporate the fact that because she had the kyuubi before, she somehow retained all of its benefits? The fact is, she had the Kyuubi, it was ripped from her (normally kills people(Uzamaki Vitality)), and she was still able to suppress for a time (Uzamaki chakra stamina), and stop it from crushing Naruto (althoug she did have Minato for that). Come on dude.
Regardless if he ignored it, it was still there wasn't it? If he had, would that not mean he was using entirely his own strength to do the clones? Up until life saving moments like Haku and gamabuntu?
So basically he learns high level techs in record time since his introduction, but sage mode is where you draw the line? It never says how long it took Jiraiya to obtain sage mode that I recall, and his mastery of it was more than enough. Had he faced the obstacles with sage mode that Naruto did (Namely, not having Ma and Pa gather nature energy for him), he might have reached Naruto's level.
Originally posted by socool8520
So what? She saved him from dying! This isn't like Sakura with the fish, this was a person, with severe, severe, injuries. And like you said, that was from a relatively weak Uzamaki.i must have missed the part where the rinnegan gives you infinite chakra because there is nothing I have read that has lead me to believe that it gives you more. That was all Uzamaki blood as far as I can tell.
On the Kushina thing....What? Of course it matters if she was separated. How in the world could you incorporate the fact that because she had the kyuubi before, she somehow retained all of its benefits? The fact is, she had the Kyuubi, it was ripped from her (normally kills people(Uzamaki Vitality)), and she was still able to suppress for a time (Uzamaki chakra stamina), and stop it from crushing Naruto (althoug she did have Minato for that). Come on dude.
Regardless if he ignored it, it was still there wasn't it? If he had, would that not mean he was using entirely his own strength to do the clones? Up until life saving moments like Haku and gamabuntu?
So basically he learns high level techs in record time since his introduction, but sage mode is where you draw the line? It never says how long it took Jiraiya to obtain sage mode that I recall, and his mastery of it was more than enough. Had he faced the obstacles with sage mode that Naruto did (Namely, not having Ma and Pa gather nature energy for him), he might have reached Naruto's level.
And it left her tired and unable to do anything. Sakura and Tsunade can heal multiple people from such injuries without reaching the same state as Karin.
You want to know where he gets the chakra from? He eats it. The Rinnegan lets him do that.
You're assuming that her stamina comes from being an Uzumaki. It doesn't. It comes from having a Kyuubi inside her for the majority of her life. It increases the natural chakra levels of a person.
Having the Kyuubi at all made his normal chakra levels above average. This is not complicated. The chakra Naruto uses to create 1000 or so Shadow Clones is his own. However his own chakra levels are higher than average just due to the Kyuubi's presence. Assuming the Kyuubi was never sealed in him, his chakra levels would go down to...well I don't rightfully know. Karin is the only strictly pure Uzumaki we've seen really.
Yes because Naruto didn't really have to get creative to master Sage Mode. He just did it. The most help he got were from a few clones and Jiraiya could have used those. The only part that required Naruto to get creative was when he had to deal with being able to keep it up more than 5 minutes. Jiraiya couldn't even really go into Sage Mode as well as Naruto.
And it left her tired and unable to do anything. Sakura and Tsunade can heal multiple people from such injuries without reaching the same state as Karin.
I think Sasuke's wounds were bigger than the ones Sakura generally heals.
She's done single stab wounds no prob, but Killerbee filled him with a whole buncha swords, and it was fast as healing go too.
Not saying that Sakura's not capable of healing more without getting tired, just pointing out Karin's had definite advantages.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixI seem to recall Naruto exploding with blue chakra to create hundreds of shadow clones and summon Gamabunta against Gaara, and that was back when he was 13 before his 2 and a half years training with Jiraiya. And Naruto didn't need the nine tails to use those clones during his training to create the rasenshuriken, the nine tails cloak only formed because of the strain his training put on his chakra network which opened his defences to being taken over by the nine tails. Naruto has still accomplished alot without needing the nine tails chakra, its just his bigger fights and victories that he has needed the nine tails chakra and sage mode.
He needed Kurama's chakra to summon a Giant Toad, and it was thanks to Kurama that he could make thousands of shadow clones in the first place, which is what helped him combine Wind chakra and the Rasengan. It is also due to Kurama's chakra mixing in with his own chakra, that his own chakra reserves have increased, and are so damn high. Without Kurama, he'd probably be somewhere closer to Orochimaru at best in terms of chakra. Couple that with the shitty chakra control he had in Part 1 and the earlier parts of Part 2, and yeah.I don't recall if he used hundreds of Shadow Clones to master Rasengan though. Probably not.
Originally posted by AuraAngelPartly maybe but a fair bit of Naruto's stamina is due to Naruto being an uzumaki, the Uzumaki clan's genetic trait is having a strong and resilient chakra network, the Uzumaki clan from the land of whirlpools is also famous for their sealing jutsu's who have a strong alliance with the leaf village which is why the ninja of the leaf have that red swirl on their ninja uniforms.
It says point blank that the Kyuubi is at the root of his stamina. Without it and his stamina goes to more or less normal. Sure you can make the argument that because he's an Uzumaki his chakra should be nice and high but then I'd just point at Karin.Anyone's chakra controlling is going to suffer if someone screws with it.
Again, it's because of the Kyuubi that he has such natural stamina. And I love how disagreeing with you means I'm hating on the character. Also the OP isn't asking what Naruto would be like if he had his family instead of Kurama and Sage Mode. It's asking what Naruto would be like without them, meaning in this scenario his parents are still dead.
Originally posted by psycho gundamit's not like he had anyone to teach him his clans techs or show him their scrolls. Both parents were dead and everyone in the village not named Iruka would risk bladder infection sooner than pissing on him if were on fire.
he hasn't even really shown any uzumaki anything nor embraced any of their scrolls or clan techs so far, nor has he shown too much interest alongside strict kyuubi training.
chackra