Would Naruto be weak without the nine tails and sage mode?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
A 12 year old Naruto without Kurama? I really don't see why he'd be above Orochimaru in terms of chakra capacity. It is not like Sasuke has low to average levels of chakra either.

Let's all hate on Hinata, who was weak despite possessing KG.

Well he was at least 4 times Kakashi at 12 so it's not out of the question.

I like Hinata so I can't really hate on her. I still believe she could beat Sakura and Ino. Sakura doesn't impress me at all in battle (her best showing was with the help of an old lad), and I can't recall Ino doing much of anything unless she has a team with her to act as a distraction.

Originally posted by socool8520
Well he was at least 4 times Kakashi at 12 so it's not out of the question.

I like Hinata so I can't really hate on her. I still believe she could beat Sakura and Ino. Sakura doesn't impress me at all in battle (her best showing was with the help of an old lad), and I can't recall Ino doing much of anything unless she has a team with her to act as a distraction.

His own chakra capacity was 4 times that of Kakashi's because of Kurama. It'd be much less if Kurama was not sealed in him.

Careful, Aura will bust your balls for referring to Chiyo as 'old lad'. He likes her almost as much as he does that raven haired bimbo from Bleach. vin

Originally posted by socool8520
Well he was at least 4 times Kakashi at 12 so it's not out of the question.

I like Hinata so I can't really hate on her. I still believe she could beat Sakura and Ino. Sakura doesn't impress me at all in battle (her best showing was with the help of an old lad), and I can't recall Ino doing much of anything unless she has a team with her to act as a distraction.

See DP's reply.

She could not beat either Sakura or Ino. Sakura has better feats and Ino has kinda become a memetic badass during this war. Her mind transfer is faster than Naruto lol.

And that old lady would stomp Hinata into the ground with a single puppet.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
His own chakra capacity was 4 times that of Kakashi's because of Kurama. It'd be much less if Kurama was not sealed in him.

Careful, Aura will bust your balls for referring to Chiyo as 'old lad'. He likes her almost as much as he does that raven haired bimbo from Bleach. vin

Okay I'm not gonna lie, I lol'd. haermm

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
His own chakra capacity was 4 times that of Kakashi's because of Kurama. It'd be much less if Kurama was not sealed in him.

Careful, Aura will bust your balls for referring to Chiyo as 'old lad'. He likes her almost as much as he does that raven haired bimbo from Bleach. vin

It never states this anywhere. In fact didn't Kakashi specifically separate the two when he was talking about this? 4 times better solo, around 100 times with Kurama? So I don't buy this argument at all.

I liked Chiyo, but I was using her sarcastically to prove how Sakura's fight with Sasori was over hyped. Without Chiyo, sakura's dead early.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
See DP's reply.

She could not beat either Sakura or Ino. Sakura has better feats and Ino has kinda become a memetic badass during this war. Her mind transfer is faster than Naruto lol.

And that old lady would stomp Hinata into the ground with a single puppet.

Okay I'm not gonna lie, I lol'd. haermm

Saw it. Didn't agree about 10 posts ago when he said, and still don't now.

What feats for Sakura? I mean without help? They both have great chakra control and sakura's strength means jack when her chakra points are closed off.

Ino sucks. She always needs Shikamaru and Choji to be effective. The war hasn't disproved this. Oh, and wasn't she also amped up on Kurama juice to achieve this "faster than naruto" tech?

Chiyo would definitely pwn Hinata. That was never in question.

Originally posted by socool8520
It never states this anywhere. In fact didn't Kakashi specifically separate the two when he was talking about this? 4 times better solo, around 100 times with Kurama? So I don't buy this argument at all.

I liked Chiyo, but I was using her sarcastically to prove how Sakura's fight with Sasori was over hyped. Without Chiyo, sakura's dead early.

Stated right here. With each year, the seal weakens, and more of Kurama's chakra slips out and mixes with Naruto's.

Considering it was Sasori that Sakura would be fighting against, no shit she'd be dead without Chiyo. Put Hinata in the same position or up against a random opponent as strong as Sasori, and she'd be dead long before Sakura would be.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Okay I'm not gonna lie, I lol'd. haermm

Success!

Seriously though, Chiyo or Rukia? 313

He still has his own chakra, which is what Kakashi was referring to, or why would he bring them up separately?

I guessed you missed my point. I never said that Hinata would do better than Sakura in the same instance. I was simply showing how unimpressive the feat is since she needed Chiyo to dodge his attacks. I only bring it up because it was one Sakura's showings that has been brought up in the past, and it's not the great.

I believe Hinata/Chiyo would have done just as well.

Originally posted by socool8520
He still has his own chakra, which is what Kakashi was referring to, or why would he bring them up separately?

I guessed you missed my point. I never said that Hinata would do better than Sakura in the same instance. I was simply showing how unimpressive the feat is since she needed Chiyo to dodge his attacks. I only bring it up because it was one Sakura's showings that has been brought up in the past, and it's not the great.

I believe Hinata/Chiyo would have done just as well.

Do I really have to spell it out for you?

i) Small amounts of Kurama's chakra spills out and combines with Naruto's chakra. This means that Naruto's own base chakra levels increase over time.
ii) The amount of Kurama's chakra that can mix with Naruto's chakra keeps increasing with each year.
iii) At that point in time, Naruto had had Kurama for 12 years. Meaning that for 12 years, Naruto's regular chakra levels were slowly increasing.
iv) "Naruto's chakra", which is what Kakashi was referring to, is really a mixture of his regular chakra and some of Kurama's.

Sakura only needed Chiyo's help in dodging Sasori's attacks for the first bit of the fight. She learned how to predict his attacks and evade accordingly.

Not really. Hinata has no way to get past Sasori's armored puppet, and she does not have the reflexes, the agility, the intelligence & the observation that Sakura has.

Originally posted by socool8520
What feats for Sakura? I mean without help? They both have great chakra control and sakura's strength means jack when her chakra points are closed off.

Ino sucks. She always needs Shikamaru and Choji to be effective. The war hasn't disproved this. Oh, and wasn't she also amped up on Kurama juice to achieve this "faster than naruto" tech?

Her strength allows her to one shot Hinata. Her ability to later keep track of Sasori's puppets means she won't get hit by Hinata in return. Sakura has also incapacitated Sasori by being fast enough. Hinata on the other hand has no feats or very few(whatever she did against the Juubi being the few). The only thing that makes people think Hinata stands any chance at all is the Hyuga style of fighting being arguably better. Which is not a good argument if you compare, say, Sage Mode Naruto to Neji.

She has reacted to Asuma before in combat and possesed Choji's body before the former could kill him. These are better feats than anything Hinata sans Naruto power up has to her name.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Success!

Seriously though, Chiyo or Rukia? 313

Probably Rukia.

Also, Ino possessed two Zetsu at once.

Like, picture you're a squad of ninja, and Ino gets the drop on you. Suddenly two of your number are trying to kill the other two, and even if you find her body she can defend and still be on the offense.

Plus if she's paired with a Hyuga, she can do super-long-range possession.

---

Ironically, Naruto has a true secret hidden power which the presence of Kurama suppressed, and without Kurama he'd actually be ten times as strong as his hidden bloodline limit awakens! 😉

Originally posted by Q99
Also, Ino possessed two Zetsu at once.

Like, picture you're a squad of ninja, and Ino gets the drop on you. Suddenly two of your number are trying to kill the other two, and even if you find her body she can defend and still be on the offense.

Plus if she's paired with a Hyuga, she can do super-long-range possession.

---

Ironically, Naruto has a true secret hidden power which the presence of Kurama suppressed, and without Kurama he'd actually be ten times as strong as his hidden bloodline limit awakens! 😉

As I recall, that was pretty close range and she was still being helped out by Shikamaru.

Ino getting the drop on anyone seems unlikely to me. But I guess this would be cool

Again, this requires pairing, which is why I don't think much of her solo. She is highly effective in a team setting, but I think she loses a lot of versatility solo. Same with Sakura. She's basically just a weaker Tsunade with less chakra I would assume. Hinata just seem to me to be the best of the three solo. She has better defense (almost no openings for sneak attacks) and better Tai jutsu (Sakura has much more strength, but she basically just throws haymakers)

Whaatt???? lol

As I recall, that was pretty close range and she was still being helped out by Shikamaru.

Shikamaru protected her body while she did stuff, but it didn't require him. They weren't shadow-trapped Zetsu or anything.

Just one of Sakura's haymakers is all she'd need to floor Hinata and the latter has no feats suggesting she'd be able to dodge.

Of course Killermover already made the definitively Sakura vs Hinata thread where his bias became lol worthy.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Just one of Sakura's haymakers is all she'd need to floor Hinata and the latter has no feats suggesting she'd be able to dodge.

Of course Killermover already made the definitively Sakura vs Hinata thread where his bias became lol worthy.

There is really nothing suggesting that she wouldn't be able to dodge them either. Sakura is by no means fast. It it seems you sell Hinata short a bit. She did take more than a few licks from Nagato before she bought it. And the reverse is also true of Sakura. If Hinata hits one or more of the chakra points, Sakura's strength is gone. Just because we haven't seen much of Hinata doesn't mean she is automatically slower and weaker than everyone. We'll just agree to disagree I guess

Never read it. I remember you mentioning that that person thought Hinata was on par with Nagato or something.

Originally posted by Q99
Shikamaru protected her body while she did stuff, but it didn't require him. They weren't shadow-trapped Zetsu or anything.

That to me seems like a pretty important need. Wouldn't you agree? Besides, they're Zetsu. Who didn't look good against the white zetsu?

Originally posted by socool8520
There is really nothing suggesting that she wouldn't be able to dodge them either. Sakura is by no means fast. It it seems you sell Hinata short a bit. She did take more than a few licks from Nagato before she bought it. And the reverse is also true of Sakura. If Hinata hits one or more of the chakra points, Sakura's strength is gone. Just because we haven't seen much of Hinata doesn't mean she is automatically slower and weaker than everyone. We'll just agree to disagree I guess

Never read it. I remember you mentioning that that person thought Hinata was on par with Nagato or something.

Sakura has showings. Hinata doesn't. And no, she really didn't. Nagato one shot Hinata. Every opponent she has fought to any meaningful degree has been so far beyond her that they give no showings.

Originally posted by socool8520
That to me seems like a pretty important need. Wouldn't you agree? Besides, they're Zetsu. Who didn't look good against the white zetsu?

Well Hinata for one. 😛

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Sakura has showings. Hinata doesn't. And no, she really didn't. Nagato one shot Hinata. Every opponent she has fought to any meaningful degree has been so far beyond her that they give no showings.

Well Hinata for one. 😛

She's a main character. Of course she has showings. They weren't that impressive to me but oh well.

She bailed out Neji iirc. lol

Originally posted by socool8520
She's a main character. Of course she has showings. They weren't that impressive to me but oh well.

She bailed out Neji iirc. lol

Whether they were impressive or not is irrelevant. The point is that they exist. Which cannot be said for Hinata.

She hit a distracted opponent. Coward. uhuh

Originally posted by socool8520
That to me seems like a pretty important need. Wouldn't you agree? Besides, they're Zetsu. Who didn't look good against the white zetsu?

It's important in a battlefield with a lot of foes. On a mission with just a few? Not so much!

Originally posted by Q99
It's important in a battlefield with a lot of foes. On a mission with just a few? Not so much!

What? 😕 If she's alone, even with only a few foes, taking the risk of missing and getting murdered is too high. Unless you assume the ninjas are just going to stand still while she does it.