Still--Quotes backed up with nothing are just words. There's also a quote saying Jar Vastor was on the level of Yoda--And Mace obliterated him. Obviously it was false.
There was also a quote saying Depa was Maces superior. Then he shows clear superiority in their battle.
Just stating and breaking down a quote and dismissing any other sources of debate, even if it is A/B/C, has no meaning whatsoever.
Originally posted by Galan007
Mace "overpowered" Palpatine in sabers, and was a singular thrust of his blade away from killing the dark lord. Had Anakin not been present to run verbal(and physical) interference, Mace almost certainly would have slew Palps.So no, Yoda did not do "what Mace did and more." He never came so close to ultimate victory.
Actually according to the script he did come close. He disarmed Sidious of his Lightsaber and almost killed him at that point.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Such eloquence! Such articulate arguments, backed by irrefutable A>B>C logic - logic which we all know is infallible! I apologise for consulting quotes and canon; in the future I will follow your glorious lead and apply hollow platitudes and sweeping yet unsubstantiated dismissals!God, if you're any indication of the calibre of debater left on these boards, then they really have gone to the dogs.
KT unfortunately relies solely on A>B>C.
To him Mace > Sidious = Yoda > Dooku > Kenobi > Skywalker.
But then he always gets confused about Skywalker defeating Dooku and Yoda having been canonically stated to be Mace's superior.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Still--Quotes backed up with nothing are just words.
They are canon quotes that can not be ignored. Nor can the opinions of the Grand Master of the Jedi Order who knows both Jedi so well be ignored.
And like Jedi Mom pointed out, they are backed up. Backed up by sparring contests, by actual fights and by reliable opinions.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
There's also a quote saying Jar Vastor was on the level of Yoda--And Mace obliterated him. Obviously it was false.
Context is key. He was talking solely about raw power. Which is actually why Vastor was able to levitate Mace around at one point.
But of course he doesn't have the skill and training of a Jedi Master.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
There was also a quote saying Depa was Maces superior. Then he shows clear superiority in their battle.
Mace's humble opinon.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Just stating and breaking down a quote and dismissing any other sources of debate, even if it is A/B/C, has no meaning whatsoever.
No, the quotes you've used have context and reliability issues. The quotes we have used are many, are reliable and are backed up.
Whilst all your relying on is the result of 1 cirumstantial fight(Mace vs Sidious) and using that to ignore all other canon sources, reliable opinions and all other fights.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually according to the script he did come close. He disarmed Sidious of his Lightsaber and almost killed him at that point.
"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.
The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.
YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy. YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another."
When Palpatine was disarmed, he immediately manifested a barrage of lightning to help regain the advantage. Don't get me wrong, Yoda did extremely well, and was shown with the distinct advantage on multiple occasions-- however, he never came as close as Mace to truly killing Palps.
Huh? Yoda disarming Palpatine is 100% canon, because it a.) comes directly from the official script, and b.) coincides with what we saw on screen.
In one scene Palps and Yoda are engaged in vigorous lightsaber combat-- and the next time we see them(after a cut-scene to the Mustafar battle), Palpatine is now saber-less and hucking Pods at Yoda. It was during said Mustafar cut-scene that Yoda disarmed Palpatine, negated his lightning, and jumped to a lower Pod.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Such eloquence! Such articulate arguments, backed by irrefutable A>B>C logic - logic which we all know is infallible! I apologise for consulting quotes and canon; in the future I will follow your glorious lead and apply hollow platitudes and sweeping yet unsubstantiated dismissals!God, if you're any indication of the calibre of debater left on these boards, then they really have gone to the dogs.
You do realize the evidence you provided correct? You do realize how utterly stupid you look when literally ALL you have is a few statements...That is LITERALLY all you presented. Yet, this is suppose to be impressive? It's the equivalent of me presenting eye witness accounts and blood evidence and you presenting circumstancial evidence. Narration NEVER carries the same weight as feats. Feats always carry more weight than simple narration. Reason being, narration can come from n unreliable source and can be prone to hyperbole. So, somebody saying Wolverine can grew 3 nose.. doesn't mean very much unless we see him do it. Mace has THE BETTER.. and not even close... THE BETTER combat ONE V ONE FEATS. Him beating sidious is better than anything ever did in his fighting career. Yet, you wanna sit her and go.. but Yoda said Dooku was his best student... WOW such evidence... You wanna go... The narrator said Mace could only hope for a stalemate... WOW... Such evidence. You should crawl back in the hole you came from until you understand how the forum works.. and what carries the most weight around here. To be short, the best evidence isn't narration. Narration can be good, and good supplemental evidence, but it never carries the same weight as feats.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yeah, no doubt that there's an influx of Dooku fanboys in the mix... but it's silly how clear cut you pretend this is.
Originally posted by Vensai
Calling someone a fanboy is both rude and not a valid argument.
Originally posted by Vensai
Dooku is top tier, like it or not. He has held his own against the likes of Yoda and Mace.
No one denied Dooku is top tier. But he's Sidious's b1tch and pawn through and through and couldn't beat Yoda on a world that gave him a truly magical home turf advantage. Mace may very well be a different story, which is why I oppose Thanosi's argument that Dooku will lose to Mace simply because Mace smoked Dooku. The two have comparable feats and standing.