ROTS Mace Windu Vs AOTC/ROTS Count Dooku

Originally posted by Galan007
Mace "overpowered" Palpatine in sabers, and was a singular thrust of his blade away from killing the dark lord. Had Anakin not been present to run verbal(and physical) interference, Mace almost certainly would have slew Palps.

So no, Yoda did not do "what Mace did and more." He never came so close to ultimate victory.

"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.

YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.

YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.

YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment.

YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA."-ROTS official Script

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Mace may very well be a different story, which is why I oppose Thanosi's argument that Dooku will lose to Mace simply because Mace smoked Dooku. The two have comparable feats and standing.

This should read: [...]will lose to Mace simply because Mace smoked Sidious.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You do realize the evidence you provided correct?

I do. I typed it. Thank you for your concern, but I am not afflicted with amnesia just yet. I'm afraid I can't say the same about you and idiocy.

You do realize how utterly stupid you look when literally ALL you have is a few statements...That is LITERALLY all you presented. Yet, this is suppose to be impressive?

One can't help but note the irony here, given the crux of your argument your entire argument is based on the flawed presumption that because Mace disarmed Sidious, he would also beat Count Dooku.

That is not a valid argument, for reasons which have already been extensively explained to you by my learned friends. If you wish to continue debating through your idiot-tinted glasses, then that is your problem, not mine.

It's the equivalent of me presenting eye witness accounts and blood evidence and you presenting circumstancial evidence.

As someone who has studied law, I find it most amusing that you are relying on 'eye witness accounts'. I used to always wonder why such evidence was considered to be the least reliable in a court of law, but after reading your nonsense it all makes sense.

Narration NEVER carries the same weight as feats. Feats always carry more weight than simple narration. Reason being, narration can come from n unreliable source and can be prone to hyperbole.

Um, no.

While it would be correct to say that the duel between Windu and Darth Sidious is G-canon (the highest form thereof), it is rubbish to then adopt an A>B>C argument derived from that G-canon to try and give weight to your argument. If Mace beat Dooku in the movies, then that woud be G-canon. However it is not G-canon to suggest that because Mace beat Dooku's master, he too would be Dooku. Flawed. Nonsense. Idiotic.

We move then to C-canon. C-canon is valid as long as it does not contradict with G (or T) canon. C-canon exists to show that Mace is, at best, only equal to Dooku. I presume that when you say that narration can come from an unreliable source, and can thus be prone to hyperbole, you mean narration from an in-universe character. I quite agree. In fact, I specifically acknowledged this point when I quoted Yoda - the fact you didn't realise this shows that your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

But, when it is the narrator (that is, author) describing something, then - within limits - it is entirely reliable canon. The narrator in Dark Rendezvous claiming that "Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground” is irrefutable canon. Irrefutable, because it does not contradict higher G-canon.

So, somebody saying Wolverine can grew 3 nose.. doesn't mean very much unless we see him do it. Mace has THE BETTER.. and not even close... THE BETTER combat ONE V ONE FEATS. Him beating sidious is better than anything ever did in his fighting career. Yet, you wanna sit her and go.. but Yoda said Dooku was his best student... WOW such evidence... You wanna go... The narrator said Mace could only hope for a stalemate... WOW... Such evidence.

See above.

I would also like it noted that your liberal use of capital letters to emphasise the most shallow of points pains me, almost as much as your horrendous arguments do.

You should crawl back in the hole you came from until you understand how the forum works.. and what carries the most weight around here.

How delightfully condescending! You evidently failed to notice that I have been registered on these forums for over two years longer than you. Perhaps you should crawl back into your hole, until you develop even a modicum of intelligence and debating prowess.

I just wish I could somehow convey how foolish you look, trying to order me to understand "what carries the most weight around here". The fact you are not familiar with the term 'canon' itself speaks volumes.

I will direct you here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t441813.html

The link takes you to the forum rules, helpfully provided by Ushgarak. You will find within a small 'beginners guide' to how canon works. I know that calling you a beginner is overstating your poisition, but we all have to start somewhere!

There is no omniscient narrator of Dark Rendezvous. Star Wars novels are written in third person limited viewpoint.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Yeah...that does not undermine anything I've said 😬

Yoda>Vaapad!Mace>Sidious>Dooku

If your talking about overall power then I would suggest Sidious > Vappad!Mace.

If your talking solely about Sabers then there's no proof Sidious > Dooku. I'm not even convinced Mace is flat out > Sidious.

Mace, Sidious and Dooku are all upper level Saber/Fencing experts. And likely peers in that respect. Just because 1 wins one day doesn't mean that would happen every time.

And Yoda's likely superior to all of them (in pure Sabers)

Regarding their saber feats, they are similar. Mace does have impressive accolades; such as overpowering Darth Sidious in a strict saber duel, even though it is confirmed they were equals in this regard.

But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse.
-Revenge of the Sith

Mace has also been noted as being ''among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced'' (Revenge of the Sith).

In their respective fights against Sora Bulq, Dooku did better than Mace;

As seen, it was even before Mace pushed Sora Bulq against wall.

As seen, Dooku casually disarms Bulq and then floors him with lightning. After that, he casually disarms Tholme.

For their fights against General Grievous, Dooku yet again comes out on top. Mace had quite a bit of trouble with Grievous in Labyrinth of Evil. Dooku, however, is noted in the same novel to have regularly outsparred Grievous;

And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

Further more, Dooku disarmed Grievous in a sparring session in the old Micro Series quite handily.

As for Mace's triumph, it is certainly impressive, even if they were ''only'' equals. As confirmed in Labyrinth of Evil, Sidious considered Dooku an equal in swordplay when he met him. This coincides perfectly with the fact that:

a) Mace was an equal with Sidious in sabers
b) Dooku had bested Mace earlier

The reason it coincides perfectly? Because Dooku is confirmed to be an ''even greater Lord of the Sith'' in Revenge of the Sith and there's no reason to assume that he improved less than Sidious in swordplay from when they met. It's safe to assume Dooku is roughly on par with Sidious in swordplay as well.

Dark Rendezvous suggests that Mace is Dooku's equal on neutral ground in swordplay;

Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground

Yoda also suggests Dooku is the most ''learned in the ways of the force in Dark Rendezvous.

As for fights against each other, they've looked completely equal- one instance was on Boz Pity;

It seems to me they're roughly on par with each other in a saber duel.

As for physical strength, Mace is probably superior here but not to the point where it will actually be a deciding factor. Dooku himself was able to block overhand strikes from Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi at the same time; the former described as the ''strongest'' Jedi of his generation, the latter being able to hold off two physical beasts, Darth Maul and Savage Opress at the same time. Further more, Labyrinth of Evil implies Dooku's age is not a handicap.

As for speed, they seem even. Both have speed feats putting them near equals.

As for the force, this is where the biggest difference is. Mace did push a tank off a cliff in TCW, probably his best feat. I recall him during similar feats in Shatterpoint but I can't remember.

Dooku, however, according to Yoda, the ''most learned in the ways of the force'' (Dark Rendezvous), has disposed Obi-Wan Kenobi with a flick of his wrist. He has disarmed Asajj Ventress twice with the force and floored her with the lift of a finger as well. He has choked Savage Opress in Withces of the Mist who later, in the same episode, was able to push a Jedi Craft off a cliff, its size rivaling that of the tank Mace Windu pushed. He has lifted huge stones weighing probably in the range of 80 tons, brought down a huge platform in Clone Wars: Republic Heroes and more.

Mace, in the force, is arguably outclassed. Dooku can also use the force whilst dueling as proven in the AotC movie where he crashes a crane whilst in a saberlock with Yoda.

Personally, I'd give Dooku a slight majority, perhaps even 7/10. But it's close, very close.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I do. I typed it. Thank you for your concern, but I am not afflicted with amnesia just yet. I'm afraid I can't say the same about you and idiocy.

One can't help but note the irony here, given the crux of your argument your entire argument is based on the flawed presumption that because Mace disarmed Sidious, he would also beat Count Dooku.

That is not a valid argument, for reasons which have already been extensively explained to you by my learned friends. If you wish to continue debating through your idiot-tinted glasses, then that is your problem, not mine.

As someone who has studied law, I find it most amusing that you are relying on 'eye witness accounts'. I used to always wonder why such evidence was considered to be the least reliable in a court of law, but after reading your nonsense it all makes sense.

Um, no.

While it would be correct to say that the duel between Windu and Darth Sidious is G-canon (the highest form thereof), it is rubbish to then adopt an A>B>C argument derived from that G-canon to try and give weight to your argument. If Mace beat Dooku in the movies, then that woud be G-canon. However it is not G-canon to suggest that because Mace beat Dooku's master, he too would be Dooku. Flawed. Nonsense. Idiotic.

We move then to C-canon. C-canon is valid as long as it does not contradict with G (or T) canon. [b]C-canon exists to show that Mace is, at best, only equal to Dooku. I presume that when you say that narration can come from an unreliable source, and can thus be prone to hyperbole, you mean narration from an in-universe character. I quite agree. In fact, I specifically acknowledged this point when I quoted Yoda - the fact you didn't realise this shows that your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

But, when it is the narrator (that is, author) describing something, then - within limits - it is entirely reliable canon. The narrator in Dark Rendezvous claiming that "Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground” is irrefutable canon. Irrefutable, because it does not contradict higher G-canon.

See above.

I would also like it noted that your liberal use of capital letters to emphasise the most shallow of points pains me, almost as much as your horrendous arguments do.

How delightfully condescending! You evidently failed to notice that I have been registered on these forums for over two years longer than you. Perhaps you should crawl back into your hole, until you develop even a modicum of intelligence and debating prowess.

I just wish I could somehow convey how foolish you look, trying to order me to understand "what carries the most weight around here". The fact you are not familiar with the term 'canon' itself speaks volumes.

I will direct you here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t441813.html

The link takes you to the forum rules, helpfully provided by Ushgarak. You will find within a small 'beginners guide' to how canon works. I know that calling you a beginner is overstating your poisition, but we all have to start somewhere! [/B]

This is fing hilarious... where to begin the ownage....

Do you know how utterly retarded you look when you STILL try and argue narration > than feats. Your entire argument was based on roughly 3 lines of narration... yes THREE lines of narration. That is so beyond pitiful that it amazes me you keep coming back for more. Is this why you were gone for awhile before? Could it because you argued the same way before, and wrere laughed off the board?

What's even more ironic is how you direct me to the forjm rules.. which totally BACK UP MY CASE not yours. Feats are the most important thing when evaluating vs. fights. Narration falls behind feats... Yet you want me to read the rules... ohhh the irony.

Make I can make this simple for a simpleton like yourself. When evaluating who would win a hypothetical matchup between Whitaker and Mayweather... One person presents Whtakers fights with Chavez... Mcgirt.. Nelson.. and DLH to back up his case for Whitaker. The other person brings up statements from Roger Mayweather (father Money May and former of boxer and Champion).. Statements from Mosley.. Statements from Marquez.. Talking about how good Mayweather is. Which do you think is the better evidence and backed up their case better? Do you see how a real world example totally captures how idotic you look even claiming my evidence isn't as good as yours.. It's downright laughable how you look at this moment. You can try and scream abc logic is wrong and a fallacy to hide behind how utterly pitiful your arguments are... that won't help you though because this is what we know....

1. Sidious is Dooku's master.. Now what does this mean.. by definition and in almost all cases.. the student is below the master in terms of force power and mastery. There are exceptions to the rule.. but generally you take a role of subservience for a reason... You know you're not as powerful nor as learned.. thus you take such a role. A role dooku took below SIds. Yet, are you trying to claim that Dooku is above Sids? IF not, then WTF is your point because...

2. Mace BEAT sids in battle... a battle that saw force powers and sabers mixed in their one v one battle. So Mace beats somebody more powerful.. and you wanna go.. nope ABC logic doesn't work.. Ummmm yes it does you moron... because again, it comes down to which is more likely... IS it more likely that since Mace beat somebody more powerful than Dooku he would also beat dooku.. or is it welll Sids is more powerful but Dooku brings other stuff to the table that would mean Mace's win doesn't count for much... The more likely thing is that Mace beat sids and thus would beat Dooku. If not, than present your case for Dooku bring stuff to the table that would counter Mace beating Sids. That is your case to prove not mine. WE all know how that would go though don't we? We know you don't have much ground to stand on following things to their logical conclusion there.

To expand on the above and continue with real world examples...I cite Whitaker being able to beat Castillo or Cotto and present his fights with Chavez/Ramirez and Nelson as examples... Citing the fact that Whitaker dominated better versions of pressure fighters than the ones in question. Castillo and Cotto are poor man's versions of the people I named... yet you would scream abc logic abc logic!!! LULZ.... No, I cited examples of somebody beating superiors of the people in question. That is ABC logic that is arguing via feats.. deductive logic and reasoning. I see when the going gets tough and you get clowned on for your pitiful post.. you run and hide behind ABC Logic for the loss.. as I've shown.. that is exponetionally better than what you presented.

Now, I'm STILL waiting for the examples of narration you used being from a omniscient narrator.. You claimed some of your exampes were but most were not at all. So surely, you can do better than this? I mean it's bad enough all you bring to the table is narration... but the narration being faulty.. just makes you look all the more stupid.

I can see again my Law example went right over your head and the levels of your reading comprehension is worse than I thought. I tired to give an example that took into account your abc logic fails.. i.e. eye witness testimony... Yet, also referenced blood evidence i.e. one v one combat feats. So while I didn't need to... I tried to be as fair as possible. Your evidence on the other hand is PURELY circumstancial evidence. What does studied law mean? I current work for a law firm myself.. do you and if so what do you do? If you uderstood the levels of evidence.. you would understand what I presented carries more weight than what you presented. Even a 5th grader would be able to figure that out.

So what i've learned here... is that you've been on this forum for longer than me.. yet still can't grasp how to present your case in a way that carries a lot of weight. I assume this is why you disappeared for awhile, only to reappear making the same mistake again. I suggest a critical thinking 101 class as a good starting point for you. Oh and you can thank me later buddy.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yes he did.

"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. [B]The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.

YODA: Destroy you I will, just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.

YODA jumps to a lower Senate Pod. PALPATINE reaches out with one hand, and a Senate pod is released from its mooring and heads toward the Podium. PALPATINE uses the Force to hurl pod after pod at YODA, who ducks and jumps from one flying pod to another.

YODA leaps away from the pods. He uses the Force to hold one pod suspended in the air. The pod spins and YODA throws it back at PALPATINE, who leaps away at the last moment.

YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA."-ROTS official Script [/B]

Like I said: absolutely nothing from that scene depicts Yoda coming as close to killing Palpatine as Mace did.

But Galan, he phrased is differntly FTW!!! lol

Welcome to the SW boards Intrepid37. I like your last post 👆

I liked his post as well.. Didn't agree with its premise and conclusion but I liked it. The main problem it had was it relied on how Dooku did against the General compared to Mace. A faulty comparison because Dooku trained the General...so of course he would likely do better as he taught him what he knows.. He knows his where his is strong and weak and how to take advantage of that. I have NO DOUBT that if Mace trained the General he would enjoy the same ease as what dooku enjoyed in their battle. Either way, it was a fairly good post.

Grievous is portrayed radically different in G- and T-canon. Mace would wreck Grievous with impunity in either of them.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Grievous is portrayed radically different in G- and T-canon. Mace would wreck Grievous with impunity in either of them.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is fing hilarious... where to begin the ownage....

If what you provided was “ownage”, then – as Master Kenobi would say – “you are lost!” But God loves a tryer, and heaven knows you try.

Before I move on to the substantive part of my argument, allow me to preface it with two points:
(1) This will be the last time I reply to your incoherent rambling, unless you can provide an argument with even a modicum of plausibility and depth. Heck, in your case, half a modicum will suffice; I’d hate to strain you.
(2) I would much prefer it if you used the quote function on these boards correctly. Not for my own benefit, but so that the other learned members of this board can see how utterly ridiculous your replies are next to the arguments you are meant to be refuting.

Do you know how utterly retarded you look when you STILL try and argue narration > than feats. Your entire argument was based on roughly 3 lines of narration... yes THREE lines of narration.

You’re trying to say that I look retarded? Good lord, before you spout off such petty insults, I would suggest you learn to type and construct sentences with even the slightest semblance of eloquence. At the moment it looks like you inserted a pencil up your backside and tried hitting the keys with it.

My minimalist use of narration is all that I need to establish that, at the very least, Mace is on par with Count Dooku. Given that they have only duelled once in written canon (Boz Pity), in circumstances which gave rise to no clear victor (or, indeed, any indication as to who the victor would be in a subsequent duel), your expectation of a myriad of lengthy sources and quotes and examples to back up one’s argument is ludicrous.

What is even more ludicrous is that your entire argument relies on A>B>C logic, logic which is inherently flawed.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

Surely you must know that your logic is flawed. So are you merely being stubborn? I refuse to believe that anyone can be as dense as you are opting to be.

Allow me to explain why your A>B>C logic is flawed. It is based on the premise that because Darth Sidious is more powerful than Dooku, and Mace disarmed Sidious, then Mace too would beat Dooku.

Explain the following to me then:

Dooku > Obi-Wan > Anakin. Does this mean that Dooku would beat Anakin? Afraid not.

Yoda > Mace > Sidious. Does this mean that Yoda would beat Sidious? Nope.

RotJ Luke > Vader > Sidious [who he threw down the well]. Does this mean that Luke would beat Sidious? Negative.

My last example is obviously facetious, but the point remains. Your logic is flawed. Wrong. Illogical. Unsound. Erroneous. Your entire argument relies on the fact that because Mace beat Sidious, he would beat Dooku too. That logic is wrong.

What's even more ironic is how you direct me to the forjm rules.. which totally BACK UP MY CASE not yours. Feats are the most important thing when evaluating vs. fights. Narration falls behind feats... Yet you want me to read the rules... ohhh the irony.

Lord, give me strength. I directed you to the rules so you would have some understanding as to how canon works. You still don’t. I am wasting my time with you.

Feats are not inherently “more important” (by which, I assume, you mean higher canon) than narration. Feats which are seen in the movies are indeed the highest form of canon, and trump anything else that might contradict it.
But here is the kicker: nothing I have said or quoted contradicts G-canon. If C-canon can be applied consistently with G-canon, then it is legitimate.

What you are trying to do is apply a flawed system of logic, and attempt to pass it off as the highest form of authority. Like I said in a previous post, while it is correct to say that the duel between Windu and Darth Sidious is G-canon (the highest form thereof), it is rubbish to then adopt an A>B>C argument derived from that G-canon to try and give weight to your argument. If Mace beat Dooku in the movies, then that woud be G-canon. However it is not G-canon to suggest that because Mace beat Dooku's master, he too would be Dooku.

Your line of logic that ends in Mace’s superiority is merely your opinion. Your opinion is inconsistent with C-Canon which says that, at the very least, Dooku and Mace are equals. I hate to tell you, but C-canon trumps your opinion.

Make I can make this simple for a simpleton like yourself. When evaluating who would win a hypothetical matchup between Whitaker and Mayweather... One person presents Whtakers fights with Chavez... Mcgirt.. Nelson.. and DLH to back up his case for Whitaker. The other person brings up statements from Roger Mayweather (father Money May and former of boxer and Champion).. Statements from Mosley.. Statements from Marquez.. Talking about how good Mayweather is. Which do you think is the better evidence and backed up their case better? Do you see how a real world example totally captures how idotic you look even claiming my evidence isn't as good as yours.. It's downright laughable how you look at this moment. You can try and scream abc logic is wrong and a fallacy to hide behind how utterly pitiful your arguments are... that won't help you though because this is what we know....

I have no idea who any of these people are, but from what I can glean, your argument is horrendously tenuous anyway. Why? Because it once again relies on A>B>C logic; logic which is ridiculous, and makes the user of which look equally so.

See above as to my discussion as to why such logic does not work.

1. Sidious is Dooku's master.. Now what does this mean.. by definition and in almost all cases.. the student is below the master in terms of force power and mastery. There are exceptions to the rule.. but generally you take a role of subservience for a reason... You know you're not as powerful nor as learned.. thus you take such a role. A role dooku took below SIds. Yet, are you trying to claim that Dooku is above Sids? IF not, then WTF is your point because...

I’m not claiming that Dooku is above Sidious. I’m claiming that Dooku is above Mace. Why? Because I have C-canon to support my points, and not flawed logic.

2. Mace BEAT sids in battle... a battle that saw force powers and sabers mixed in their one v one battle. So Mace beats somebody more powerful.. and you wanna go.. nope ABC logic doesn't work.. Ummmm yes it does you moron... [etc]

Right, each time you try and employ an A>B>C argument against me, you will be met with the following:

YouTube video

To expand on the above and continue with real world examples...I cite Whitaker being able to beat Castillo or Cotto and present his fights with Chavez/Ramirez and Nelson as examples... Citing the fact that Whitaker dominated better versions of pressure fighters than the ones in question. [etc]

YouTube video

I tired to give an example that took into account your abc logic fails.. i.e. eye witness testimony...

Your evidence on the other hand is PURELY circumstancial evidence.

That awkward moment when you don’t know what circumstantial evidence is (nor how it is spelled).

What does studied law mean?

I current work for a law firm myself.. do you and if so what do you do?

You work for a law firm? Not representing clients I hope! If the prose and depth of argument you are employing here is anything to go by, I’m afraid you’re leaving yourself open to huge claims in professional negligence. Because you’re a fool.

I am not a practising lawyer. I am currently completing postgraduate study in law. If you’re any indication of the calibre of lawyer I will one day come up against then please, tell me where you live so that I can move to your jurisdiction! Wins ahoy!

If you uderstood the levels of evidence.. you would understand what I presented carries more weight than what you presented. Even a 5th grader would be able to figure that out.

So the evidence that I presented, which directly refers to the ability of Count Dooku in relation to Mace, is worth less than your A>B>C logic? Like I said, if that is how this forum works, then it truly has gone to the dogs.

So what i've learned here... is that you've been on this forum for longer than me.. yet still can't grasp how to present your case in a way that carries a lot of weight. I assume this is why you disappeared for awhile, only to reappear making the same mistake again. I suggest a critical thinking 101 class as a good starting point for you. Oh and you can thank me later buddy.

Very kind of you. But alas, the ability to speak does not make you intelligent. You’re trying to tell me how to structure an argument when: (1) you can’t spell; (2) you don’t understand how to properly use grammar or basic prose; (3) your entire argument rests on flawed A>B>C logic; and (4) you employ tedious analogies which are equally as flawed as the logic which you seek to bolster.

Go back and try again. Actually, don’t.

@DARTH POWER

Thanks.

@Rampant ox
Given that they have only duelled once in written canon (Boz Pity)

They have duelled twice. You should watch their duel in "Star Wars - The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes".

Anyway, I agree with You, that Dooku was a bit better then Mace.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

1. Sidious is Dooku's master.. Now what does this mean.. by definition and in almost all cases.. the student is below the master in terms of force power and mastery. There are exceptions to the rule.. but generally you take a role of subservience for a reason... You know you're not as powerful nor as learned.. thus you take such a role. A role dooku took below SIds. Yet, are you trying to claim that Dooku is above Sids? IF not, then WTF is your point because...

2. Mace BEAT sids in battle... a battle that saw force powers and sabers mixed in their one v one battle. So Mace beats somebody more powerful.. and you wanna go.. nope ABC logic doesn't work.. Ummmm yes it does you moron... because again, it comes down to which is more likely... IS it more likely that since Mace beat somebody more powerful than Dooku he would also beat dooku.. or is it welll Sids is more powerful but Dooku brings other stuff to the table that would mean Mace's win doesn't count for much... The more likely thing is that Mace beat sids and thus would beat Dooku.

KT are you claiming Mace is more powerful than Sidious?

Because if your not then the Sidious thing isn't good enough to judge between Mace and Dooku seen as Sidious is more powerful than both Mace and Dooku. It would just mean that Mace defeated someone more powerful than himself.
Fact is we never saw Dooku vs Sidious so it would be impossible to conclude that Dooku would never be capable of besting Sidious even on his best day even in a pure Saber duel, even with the back up of 3 Council Masters.

If you are claiming Mace is more powerful than Sidious because he beat him, well that wouldn't make any sense to me personally. Because that would make Mace more powerful than Yoda.
Not to mention the whole point of the Skywalkers having the potential to surpass the Emperor in power would be kind of silly since we apparently would already have someone that powerful.

I thought about mentioning the game, Zett, but I opted to ignore it as I wasn't sure of its validity in canon. It would mean that the combined efforts of both Mace and Kenobi are only enough to stalemate the Count.

It could be, however, that I have simply been underestimating the Count's true power!

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I thought about mentioning the game, Zett, but I opted to ignore it as I wasn't sure of its validity in canon. It would mean that the combined efforts of both Mace and Kenobi are only enough to stalemate the Count.

It could be, however, that I have simply been underestimating the Count's true power!

You mean this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ieRQ-4BB4

Cut Scenes are Canon. The gameplay isn't but it gives us an idea of what happens in between the cut scenes.

The dialogue in the gameplay Might even be canon.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You mean this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ieRQ-4BB4

Cut Scenes are Canon. The gameplay isn't but it gives us an idea of what happens in between the cut scenes.

The dialogue in the gameplay Might even be canon.

That's the one.

If it is indeed valid canon, then I fail to see how those who are arguing in favour of Windu have a leg to stand on. The duel in the above link clearly shows that, even with the help of Master Kenobi, Mace was unable to beat Dooku.

Although, in fairness, one would have to factor in the Jedi's duel against multiple magnaguards immediately prior.