Originally posted by Intrepid37
This I can agree with. I was just saying it wouldn't be a ''very big advantage'', just a ''considerable advantage'' considering Dooku was able to effortlessly fend off Anakin's and Obi-Wan's blades (The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader), Anakin being the ''fastest Jedi of his generation'' (Revenge of the Sith).
Well it's enough of an advantage that Dooku would have very little to no hope of ever overcoming Sidious in a pure blade match, unless you can point out an advantage that Dooku has over Sidious, such as skill (which you have yet to prove) and/or strength (which I already proved Sidious is stronger).
And hopefully you're not implying that Anakin is faster than Mace just because he is considered the most powerful/fastest of his generation (which Windu wouldn't be apart of).
Originally posted by Intrepid37
So why do you bring it up as a way to compare Dooku to Sidious?
Because that's what we do in a vs. forum. I proved that Sidious is much stronger than Dooku.
Dooku can no doubt end Savage rather effortlessly in a pure blade match IMO (assuming he doesn't underestimate his strength), but he'd probably have to do it as quickly as possible; he wouldn't be able to afford to play around with Savage the way Sidious did because Savage's strength is still a threat to Dooku, which is why he spent most of the fight using FL on him: to keep him at a distance.
You said that Ventress and the nightsisters were a better team (which you have yet to prove), as if Dooku's showing against them contradicts his showing against Ventress and Savage, which it doesn't contradict it because the nightsisters didn't possess Savage's strength, which is what put Dooku at a momentary disadvantage during that fight. Ventress and the nightsisters put Dooku at a disadvantage by drugging/blinding him. In both cases, Dooku struggled, but for different reasons, so there is no contradiction.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not to the point where it'd really matter.
Dooku viewed Savage's strength as a threat, and Sidious proved that he was stronger than Savage, so why wouldn't it matter? It matters even more when Sidious is also considerably faster than Dooku.
Not saying Sidious would disarm Dooku the way Savage did, as Dooku is possibly aware of his master's force enhanced physical strength, so he'd probably be more prepared, but it's still an advantage Sidious has over Dooku.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku was seemingly overpowering Ventress in the saberlocks they had in ''Witches of the Mist'', the same Ventress that held off Savage's strength with in the Season 4 final.
Ventress managing to hold on to her saber for some time does not mean she is equal to Savage in strength, considering how he ragdolled her everywhere. I believe Dooku could have also held on to his if he wasn't taken by surprise, but he still felt Savage's strength was a threat to him even after he realized how strong he was. So I'm not sure why Dooku being stronger than Ventress means anything.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Revenge of the Sith also indicates that it he could submerge himself into Vaapad almost instantly, otherwise Sidious would have blitzed him mid-battle;
Mace wouldn't be blitzed; he doesn't need to reach Sidious' level (which required a little time) in order to react faster than the jedi who accompanied him.
If vaapad allows Mace to instantly reach Sidious's level, then why was he being overwhelmed by Sidious in the beginning of the duel when he had three other jedi with him? Windu's is a very aggressive fighter and his form relies mostly on speed, so when he is taken out of his element and forced on the defensive, then it's probably because his opponent is faster and more aggressive.
Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center—
And let it fountain out again. He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.
There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared. He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power. He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But—
Neither did he have power over it.
Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse. -ROTS Novel
Although Mace can instantly submerge into vaapad, the bolded part indicates that he was deeper in it than he was at the beginning. And he didn't begin to fight evenly with Palpatine until after he was forced into the chancellor's office.
Also, after it had explained how vaapad opens a gate that restrains one's inner darkness, the novel then refers to Mace's fight with Sidious as "vaapad's ultimate test", which may suggest that there was a level of restraint(as far as inner darkness) in all of Windu's fights previous to the one he had with Sidious.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove Mace got stronger between Dark Rendezvous and Revenge of the Sith.
I'm not saying he did. I'm saying that during his fight with Sidious, he was fighting at a level that he had never fought before. But if you believe he can reach that level during any fight, then he would handily defeat Dooku in a saber duel, considering it required time for Windu to reach that level, and considering he was already fighting evenly with Dooku at the very beginning of their duel, from the moment their blades met. Sidious, on the otherhand, was able to slaughter three jedi and then proceed to force Windu all the way into the chancellor's office during the beginning of their duel. Dooku wouldn't be able to replicate that feat; he'd be stomped if he threw himself at Windu, Fisto, Tiin and Kolar.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
So was Dooku, according to Labyrinth of Evil;Sidious had recognized in Dooku the makings of a true accomplice - - an equal from the other camp, already trained in the Jedi arts, a master duelist, a political visionary.
In other words: Sidious didn't have to start from scratch with Dooku as he did with Maul. Dooku was already well trained in jedi arts (force), was already a master duelist, and was already political savvy. Obviously Dooku was not a perfect equal to Sidious in every category, otherwise he wouldn't be scared shit-less just by talking to Sidious over a hologram.