Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I agree the all-out fight is more likely to be decided in a Saber contest than a Force contest.And Mace probably has the edge there in pure Sabers.
But then Dooku tends to do well in All-Out's as he's very good at combining the 2 - Saber Prowess with simultaneous Force attacks.
So it's too close to call Imo.
Depends on environment really. But Dooku always appeared more confident whenever he engaged Windu.
Originally posted by The_TempestExcept the one I provided you that declares three of them were beyond Obi-Wan's ability to handle alone.
It was depicted in the same microseries that portrays Mace as capable of manhandling countless droids... whereas Dooku can't take 30 pirates in the new series. STFU and quit moving the goalpost to satisfy your Dooku wankery.
The ROTS novel and the microseries were written at the same time though. In fact in the ROTS commentary directly references the microseries. The microseries depicts Jedi struggling with Magnaguards. Shaak Ti is the only one in the series who fights off dozens. And if a goddamned Padawan can take on 3, mere days after she left the Jedi Temple a Jedi Master and renowned swordbeing taking on dozens isn't farfetched at all.
Nope. Thank God I don't need one.
Me either.
Yeah, so is thinking that he'd have trouble with Grievous alone, but lo and behold, he was running from Grievous later on in season 5.Of course, maybe it's fending off Maul and Savage that's the absurd, inconsistent feat... maybe. mmm
Considering Grievous has feats that allow him to match Mace Windu blade for blade, with 2 sabers no.
Yeah, because there's no chance Dooku would die taking on Mace Windu in a fight. 😂
Don't put words in my mouth like you shove Windu's BBC in yours.
I challenge you to find me a single source that says Mace never bested Dooku in sparring.
Burden of proof is on you to find me a source that says Mace bested Dooku. Except...there are none considering I've checked all the source material.
Given that Dooku's liverspotted dick has all but dissolved betwixt your lips, you probably shouldn't be giving anyone advice in this regard.
LOL THEYRE EQUALS BUT DOOKU RUNNIN FROM MACE DONT MEAN SHIT DOOKU BEAT MACE AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER IN THE PAST AND THERES NO WAI MACE HAS IMPROVED SINCE THEN BECAUSE ONLY GRIEVOUS AND OBI-WAN CAN IMPROVE BECAUSE IT SUITS MY ARGUMENTS MAGNAGUARDS ARE PUSSIES UNTIL THEY HOLD MACE THEN THEYRE AWESOME DOOKU WOULD CURBSTOMP HIM LOLOLOLOL
Uh, no. My argument is that I'd rather have Obi-Wan Kenobi backing me up against Dooku, than Magnaguards backing me up against Mace Windu.
The Magnaguards caught Windu off guard, and he didn't have Obi-Wan watching his back.
-snip-
Mizukage_Yoda
Which predates other sources that have Padawans pwning them in the threes.
Unless those three that were pwned by the Padawan were the same three that were apparently beyond Obi-Wan, you lack a cogent point.
Nothing new, there, of course.
Mizukage_Yoda
The ROTS novel and the microseries were written at the same time though. In fact in the ROTS commentary directly references the microseries. The microseries depicts Jedi struggling with Magnaguards. Shaak Ti is the only one in the series who fights off dozens. And if a goddamned Padawan can take on 3, mere days after she left the Jedi Temple a Jedi Master and renowned swordbeing taking on dozens isn't farfetched at all.
And even if I were to entertain that tragically inane argument, it's still irrelevant unless you can prove that the MagnaGuards beyond Obi-Wan's prowess were part of the group that accosted Shaak Ti.
Mizukage_Yoda
Yes you do.
No, I don't?
Mizukage_Yoda
It will take more than an outdated source from a C-canon novel to convince me.
My friend, you're the lying son of a ***** who claimed ad nauseam that Qui-Gon and Mace were equals and, when asked, refused to provide the evidence. I'm not interested in convincing you of anything.
Mizukage_Yoda
Especially when T-Canon source material and other C-canon material contradicts that quote.
You haven't offered a single shred of evidence that contradicts the quote.
Mizukage_Yoda
No Magnaguard is a match for a Jedi Master.
Thank God I didn't claim that.
Mizukage_Yoda
Considering Grievous has feats that allow him to match Mace Windu blade for blade, with 2 sabers no.
Right, because Labyrinth of Evil isn't an outdated source. I forgot how age and obsolescence are irrelevant when they support your little jihad against Mace Windu.
Mizukage_Yoda
Don't put words in my mouth like you shove Windu's BBC in yours.
Even if I wanted to put words in your mouth, I don't think you'd let Dooku move away from it long enough for me to succeed.
Mizukage_Yoda
Burden of proof is on you to find me a source that says Mace bested Dooku. Except...there are none considering I've checked all the source material.
I didn't make the claim, you did. Instead of properly wording your remark ("There exists no evidence to suggest Mace ever bested Dooku" or "No source to my knowledge ever claims Mace ever bested Dooku"😉, you jumped the gun and made an absolute claim on the matter.
Retract the claim or prove up. If your next post doesn't include either of these, it will be considered an act of concession.
Mizukage_Yoda
Except...there are none considering I've checked all the source material.
Except... you said the same thing about Qui-Gon vs. Mace and you flat out lied. Clearly your anti-Mace agenda incites dishonesty on your part.
Mizukage_Yoda
That made me lol in real life.
I'm sure Dooku enjoyed the hummer.
Mizukage_Yoda
Uh, no. My argument is that I'd rather have Obi-Wan Kenobi backing me up against Dooku, than Magnaguards backing me up against Mace Windu.The Magnaguards caught Windu off guard, and he didn't have Obi-Wan watching his back.
Yup, because Mace Windu would have failed where a "goddamn Padawan" fresh from Coruscant succeeded, and two droids would have gave Dooku a decisive advantage over him.
👆
Mizukage_Yoda
No.
They are equals WITH Vaapad and Shatterpoints included in the equations. With Dooku's force powers granting him a SLIGHT advantage. SLIGHT. I don't think I need to say that enough. SLIGHT. Once more SLIGHT advantage.
Not really. Mace soloed an army of droids; Dooku can't take 30 pirates. Mace would clearly trash the Count since the microseries is unexaggerated.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
-snip-
I am tired of this argument, it's a giant digression from our primary debate. You can either prove that the MagnaGuards that were backing up the Count were the same of Greivous' personal guard on Utapau or GTFO. Because from what I can see those 3 are unique even if we take that quote with a grain of salt.
My friend, you're the lying son of a ***** who claimed ad nauseam that Qui-Gon and Mace were equals and, when asked, refused to provide the evidence. I'm not interested in convincing you of anything.
Right, because Labyrinth of Evil isn't an outdated source. I forgot how age and obsolescence are irrelevant when they support your little jihad against Mace Windu.
I didn't make the claim, you did. Instead of properly wording your remark ("There exists no evidence to suggest Mace ever bested Dooku" or "No source to my knowledge ever claims Mace ever bested Dooku"😉, you jumped the gun and made an absolute claim on the matter.
I don't have to prove a negative. It's not up to me to prove that Mace never bested Dooku, it's up to you to prove Mace bested Dooku. Debating 101.
Except... you said the same thing about Qui-Gon vs. Mace and you flat out lied. Clearly your anti-Mace agenda incites dishonesty on your part.
Yup, because Mace Windu would have failed where a "goddamn Padawan" fresh from Coruscant succeeded, and two droids would have gave Dooku a decisive advantage over him.
Not really. Mace soloed an army of droids; Dooku can't take 30 pirates. Mace would clearly trash the Count since the microseries is unexaggerated.
Different incomparable circumstances.
My friend, you're the lying son of a ***** who claimed ad nauseam that Qui-Gon and Mace were equals and, when asked, refused to provide the evidence. I'm not interested in convincing you of anything.Except... you said the same thing about Qui-Gon vs. Mace and you flat out lied. Clearly your anti-Mace agenda incites dishonesty on your part.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not really. Mace soloed an army of droids; Dooku can't take 30 pirates. Mace would clearly trash the Count since the microseries is unexaggerated.
Pure Windu's fanboy ;|
After Yoda: DR its clear that Dooku > Windu in the force. But as I see, not for some fanboys like You. But np. I can give You some quote from reference book, which is above your funny cw series.
The Jedi Master confronted Dooku. The two engaged in a titanic struggle of force powers, neither besting the other. - The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, p.198.
Beside that, Dooku prove himself better then Mace against people like Sora Bulq. Dooku was untouchable for people like Bulq, while Windu wasn't (Bulq was even able to force push him).
Mizukage_Yoda
I am tired of this argument, it's a giant digression from our primary debate. You can either prove that the MagnaGuards that were backing up the Count were the same of Greivous' personal guard on Utapau or GTFO. Because from what I can see those 3 are unique even if we take that quote with a grain of salt.
The nuances of debate continue to elude you, I see. This argument that has exhausted your mediocre mind was one you started.
I simply pointed out that Dooku didn't take on Mace and Obi-Wan unaided. You dismissed them as non-factors. I need only prove that MagnaGuards can be lethal to Jedi Masters in small numbers; I never claimed that the ones aiding Dooku were, precisely because I don't know.
You, clumsy hack that you are, stumbled right into this mess on your own volition.
Mizukage_Yoda
LOE is a valid source to back up why Kenobi would retreat against the General
It's no more valid than the ROTS quote I provided about the MagnaGuards viz a viz Obi-Wan.
Mizukage_Yoda
I don't have to prove a negative. It's not up to me to prove that Mace never bested Dooku, it's up to you to prove Mace bested Dooku. Debating 101.
I don't have to prove something I NEVER CLAIMED.
Mizukage_Yoda
I am well aware of that. That's what I said. Those Magnaguards didn't have to be the bee's knees in order to give an advantage to Dooku. As I said they are equals. 2 Magnaguards would easily give him the advantage.
Yup, because Shaak Ti can take on 30, Ahsoka can take on 3, but Mace Windu would be brought down by 2. 👆
Mizukage_Yoda
Different incomparable circumstances.
😂
Different only because it makes Dooku look like a b1tch and Windu look like a god?
Concession accepted.
Originally posted by Zett
Pure Windu's fanboy ;|After Yoda: DR its clear that Dooku > Windu in the force. But as I see, not for some fanboys like You. But np. I can give You some quote from reference book, which is above your funny cw series.
The Jedi Master confronted Dooku. The two engaged in a titanic struggle of force powers, neither besting the other. - The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, p.198.Beside that, Dooku prove himself better then Mace against people like Sora Bulq. Dooku was untouchable for people like Bulq, while Windu wasn't (Bulq was even able to force push him).
😆
That's a ****ing joke.
Tempest is not a "Windu Fanboy" - he is a champion of Darth Sidious, and wouldn't ever over exaggerate on Windu's abilities beyond what Canon implies.
And he's done a fine job of proving Windu the victor, here.
And when Dooku had his "titanic struggle" with Yoda in DR - he was on a Dark side Force Nexus, Idiot.
It is clear that up until a certain point in the War, Windu and Dooku were equals - and later at some point, Windu surpassed Dooku in nearly all respects.
Dooku knew in his heart of hearts that he could never defeat Darth Sidious without more time for study and preparation - and ironically, the book you referenced points this out very well.
Mace Windu on the other hand matched the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith in history and defeated him - having him at Windu's mercy.
It's very clear to those who aren't afflicted with Cerebral Palsy that Windu wins here. 😎
Originally posted by §hroud
😆That's a ****ing joke.
Tempest is not a "Windu Fanboy" - he is a champion of Darth Sidious, and wouldn't ever over exaggerate on Windu's abilities beyond what Canon implies.
And he's done a fine job of proving Windu the victor, here.
And when Dooku had his "titanic struggle" with Yoda in DR - he was on a Dark side Force Nexus, Idiot.
It is clear that up until a certain point in the War, Windu and Dooku were equals - and later at some point, Windu surpassed Dooku in nearly all respects.
Dooku knew in his heart of hearts that he could never defeat Darth Sidious without more time for study and preparation - and ironically, the book you referenced points this out very well.
Mace Windu on the other hand matched [B]the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith in history
and defeated him - having him at Windu's mercy.It's very clear to those who aren't afflicted with Cerebral Palsy that Windu wins here. 😎 [/B]
prove that Dooku was even afraid of Sidious.
bet you can't.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The nuances of debate continue to elude you, I see. This argument that has exhausted your mediocre mind was one you started.
I simply pointed out that Dooku didn't take on Mace and Obi-Wan unaided. You dismissed them as non-factors. I need only prove that MagnaGuards can be lethal to Jedi Masters in small numbers; I never claimed that the ones aiding Dooku were, precisely because I don't know.
I didn't dismiss them as nonfactors. All I said was that I'd rather have Kenobi back me up against someone of Dooku's calibre than have droids backing me up against someone of Mace's calibre.
You, clumsy hack that you are, stumbled right into this mess on your own volition.
It's no more valid than the ROTS quote I provided about the MagnaGuards viz a viz Obi-Wan.
It isn't but when backed by T-canon source material it is more valid.
I don't have to prove something I NEVER CLAIMED.
Yup, because Shaak Ti can take on 30, Ahsoka can take on 3, but Mace Windu would be brought down by 2. 👆
😂Different only because it makes Dooku look like a b1tch and Windu look like a god?
Concession accepted.
Because ambushing does not ~ a straight up fight.
Also I see you conveniently didn't apologize for calling me out on that bullshit in your last post. Just like you. Anything that might make you look bad you ignore. The word concession isn't in your own haughty vocabulary. Pathetic.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This entire thing is a giant red herring.
Are you in the habit of voluntarily participating in "red herring" arguments for multiple pages?
Please, you're just getting your ass kicked and are compelled to flee.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I didn't dismiss them as nonfactors. All I said was that I'd rather have Kenobi back me up against someone of Dooku's calibre than have droids backing me up against someone of Mace's calibre.
No, you dismissed the droids as being unable to take on "two of the greatest swordsmen the order ever produced" and I flat out proved you wrong.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Will you chill with the intelligence insults, it only makes your own flaws all the more apparent.
Oh, so now you want to be civil? You're wise to abandon your impudence for deference.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It isn't but when backed by T-canon source material it is more valid.
So Grievous fighting off Mace is backed by T-canon? Kindly direct me to where that is the case.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This whole time you've been arguing Mace is superior to Dooku with Vaapad. So yes you do have to prove it. But you've failed to do that. Your argument can be summed up much simpler than mine as 'Lol Vaapad'
facepalm
You've demanded that I prove Mace has beaten Dooku in the past. I never claimed Mace has beaten Dooku in the past, ergo I need not provide evidence for a claim I never made.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Wrong. 2 AND Dooku can take down Mace Windu.
Which is why Dooku killed Mace instead of fleeing? Oh, wait.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Because ambushing does not ~ a straight up fight.
Dooku wasn't ambushed, he was unarmed and surrounded (just like Mace).
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Also I see you conveniently didn't apologize for calling me out on that bullshit in your last post. Just like you. Anything that might make you look bad you ignore. The word concession isn't in your own haughty vocabulary. Pathetic.
You were the one who didn't want me to bring it up and you b1tch about red herrings ad nauseam. You wanna talk about your ignorance of source material and habit of lying about all things Mace some more?
From script:
He rains down blows upon the tiny
figure. YODA doesn't budge an inch. For the first part of
the contest, he parries every cut and thrust that COUNT
DOOKU aims. Nothing the great swordsman tries gets through.
His energy drains. His strokes become feeble, slower.
YODA attacks! He flies forward. COUNT DOOKU is forced to
retreat. Words are insufficient to describe the range and
skill of YODA's speed and swordplay. His lightsaber his a
humming blur of light. Finally, their blades cross and the
fighting slows.
As per script Dooku got tired faster. And it makes sense considering that he fought two other Jedi right before Yoda. Yet, even tired Dooku could hold his own against Yoda.
Windu has higher chance of winning but only if fight prolongs.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Are you in the habit of voluntarily participating in "red herring" arguments for multiple pages?
Please, you're just getting your ass kicked and are compelled to flee.
No, you dismissed the droids as being unable to take on "two of the greatest swordsmen the order ever produced" and I flat out proved you wrong.
Considering it's a clone wars video game based on the series that consistently portrays them as inferior to even Asoka, you have proved nothing. I never
Oh, so now you want to be civil? You're wise to abandon your impudence for deference.
There's a difference between throwing jokes around and just being a ****.
So Grievous fighting off Mace is backed by T-canon? Kindly direct me to where that is the case.
Kenobi retreating from Grievous is T-canon the reasoning is backed by all sorts of C-canon.
facepalmYou've demanded that I prove Mace has beaten Dooku in the past. I never claimed Mace has beaten Dooku in the past, ergo I need not provide evidence for a claim I never made.
Right so you have no proof that Vaapad Mace>Dooku=Regular Mace and you made it up to feed your wanking of Windu. Got it.
Which is why Dooku killed Mace instead of fleeing? Oh, wait.
Dooku wasn't ambushed, he was unarmed and surrounded (just like Mace).
Fair point and yet all you've proved is unarmed Mace>unarmed Dooku
You were the one who didn't want me to bring it up and you b1tch about red herrings ad nauseam. You wanna talk about your ignorance of source material and habit of lying about all things Mace some more? [/B]
No shit I didn't want you to bring it up. But that sure as hell didn't stop you before. And the fact that you brought up something that i have already apologized for is quite franky bullshit. Not only does it have NOTHING to do with the debate at hand but it makes your argument look weaker. That you are so desperate for a leg up that you'd bring that up when I have admitted I was wrong and apologized for it...wow I must really have you up against the ropes.
Also considering your argument that Mace>Dooku has become stringent on a quote from ROTS that states that 3 Magnaguards>Kenobi. I'd go ahead and say you lost this one.