Kit Fisto vs Shaak Ti · Star Wars Versus Forum

§|gn Nunc Vos Memor

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Take it how you want to. I go by the quote.

It's finished, Madam. - Shaak Ti wins this. 😎

Jedi Mom Restricted

My troll alarm just went off.

SIDIOUS 66 Senior Member

Grievous's lowballing comes from his showing against the Gungans, and because his personality is not as serious as it was in the older cartoons.

Personally, I agree that some of his best feats come from TCW, such as giving Kenobi hell all throughout the series. So I don't understand how most people can wank Kenobi and then turn around and lowball Grievous. If Grievous is that bad, then why does Kenobi, whom everyone considers top tier, consistently struggle against him?

Jedi Mom Restricted

I would not call ''getting kicked'' as struggling. Grievous in RotS wasn't a challenge for Kenobi.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Grievous in RotS wasn't a challenge for Kenobi.

The novel would disagree with you.

SIDIOUS 66 Senior Member

He's been more than just kicked. And yes Kenobi handily beat Grievous after so many tries.

Jedi Mom Restricted

Originally posted by Galan007
The novel would disagree with you.

Filoni disagrees with the novel.

SIDIOUS 66 Senior Member

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Filoni disagrees with the novel.

How?

Jedi Mom Restricted

''I mean It's not that big a challenge when Kenobi in the movie Revenge of the Sith finally he gets Grievous on one-to-one terms''.

''It's not the sensibility that people got, you know, unfortunately or not in the previous Micro series where they're all hiding in a ship worried about Grievous is gonna come and stomp on them.''

''If you think of a really well-trained Jedi Knight, that’s not really a possibility, they are trained against fear, they’re trained to control their fear and he ultimately is just a droid.''

''That's not to say he's not a threat. He'll fight you with his lightsabers and gut you with his gun when you're not looking. He's not gonna play fair. He's gonna do whatever he has to do to win and that's what makes Grievous kind of a challenge for the Jedi, who are used to very elegant fighting and fighting on a very fair level.''

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Filoni disagrees with the novel.

The novel still depicts Grievous' strike-speed as sufficient to very nearly overwhelm Kenobi's Soresu(and by that point, Kenobi had been dubbed THE master of Soresu/defense.) The CG, on the other hand, consistently depicts Grievous giving Kenobi hell in sabers every time they meet.

So what exactly does Filoni disagree with?

Jedi Mom Restricted

I suppose Filoni is atleast a T-canon source, putting him higher than C-canon sources such as novels.

The_Tempest Senior Member

It's pretty obvious that pre-ROTS!Grievous was intended to be a juggernaut of epic proportions who dismantled Jedi Masters left and right. (In one associated comic, he disposes of Ventress and Durge simultaneously with contemptuous ease.)

Post-ROTS!Grievous is another animal entirely. Depending on favorable conditions, he can contend with respected fighters in a strict duel. But this is not the same animal who could take on Mace Windu as was depicted in LOE. Especially when the Force enters the equation, Grievous is fodder.

Col. Valerian Republic Navy

That's exactly why when he first appeared in RotS, I felt so disappointed. After watching him in the animated series of TCW, I couldn't wait to see him on the big screen.

Jedi Mom Restricted

Damn I didn't know he took on Ventress who schooled him in TCW. What's the comic called?

The_Tempest Senior Member

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Damn I didn't know he took on Ventress who schooled him in TCW. What's the comic called?

Behold.

The_Tempest Senior Member

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
That's exactly why when he first appeared in RotS, I felt so disappointed. After watching him in the animated series of TCW, I couldn't wait to see him on the big screen.

Yeah, I used to have a primo seat on that particular bandwagon. Not so much now. I buy into Filoni's argument that Grievous is, ultimately, a particularly badass droid. He should challenge the Jedi under certain circumstances and favorable conditions, but the Force is simply too great an advantage for mooks to overcome in anything approaching "a fair fight."

Now, what Grievous should be and has never really been shown to be is a tactician par excellence. I want to see him demolish Republic fleets with impunity, for that is his true purpose and worth in the war.

DARTH POWER Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
This wasn't implied at all.
She had a hard time with that Magnaguard, because that Mangaguard's skill-level was roughly equal to hers.

Come on man, you can't say that. That fight never finished. And there was too much going on at that time. She took on multiple magnaguards simultaneously later, after sufficient rest, on a more stationery platform and when that was her sole focus.

If your claiming that single magnaguard was much more formidable, then where's your proof that Grievous >>> than that single(apparently uber skilled) magnaguard?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And yes Kenobi handily beat Grievous after so many tries.

Don't lie. He's beaten him in "Grievous Intrigue" and in "Arc Troopers." Basically every time they fight for a prolonged period Grievous runs for his life.

Col. Valerian Republic Navy

Originally posted by Galan007
The novel would disagree with you.

The movie would disagree with the novel.

Unless the novel is considered higher canon than the movie itself, then there's no point arguing this. From what we see in the movie, Grievous gets his arse handed to him and then runs for his life, failing.

Staying on topic, Shaak Tii wins.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by The_Tempest
(In one associated comic, he disposes of Ventress and Durge simultaneously with contemptuous ease.)

a.) Grievous beat a n00b Asajj, very early in the Clone Wars-- so early, in fact, that Anakin was (obviously) still a Padawan at the time. Given that Anakin was promoted to a Knight roughly 4 weeks after the battle of Geonosis, this means Grievous must have confronted Asajj/Durge less than a month after the events of AotC. In short: back then she was a far cry from the badass she's evolved into throughout the CG.

Lets be honest: Grievous did absolutely nothing in the cartoon that should lead anyone with a smidgen of common sense to believe he was above his CG incarnation. His best feat in the cartoon was besting 3 fodder Jedi+Shaak Ti and Mundi-- ALL of whom were, by Mundi's own accord, "exhausted" at the time. Like I've said before: cartoon grievous may have *seemed* more powerful/skillful, but that is primarily because nearly every Jedi he faced was either no-name fodder, or fatigued at the time. In the CG he's consistently held his own against multiple Jedi of note.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Come on man, you can't say that. That fight never finished. And there was too much going on at that time.

There was nothing else going on. Shaak Ti and the Hammerhead no-name Jedi were fighting Magnaguards atop the carrier. That's it. At NO point in time did Shaak Ti gain an advantage over said Magnaguard-- and she had ample time in which to do so.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
where's your proof that Grievous >>> than that single(apparently uber skilled) magnaguard?

Same clip. Grievous consistently forces back Shaak Ti + 2 other fodder Jedi.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
The movie would disagree with the novel.
Unless the novel is considered higher canon than the movie itself, then there's no point arguing this. From what we see in the movie, Grievous gets his arse handed to him and then runs for his life, failing.

The novel coincides quite well with what we saw in the film, actually. Kenobi tries going strike-for-strike with Grievous initially, and swiftly realizes that his speed is too overwhelming to defend against-- so he goes on the offensive and begins lopping off GG's hands one-by-one, before force-pushing him away.

The novel just put some much-needed narrative behind what we see happen on screen.

Col. Valerian Republic Navy

If the novel coincides with the movie, then Grievous was beaten handily by Kenobi, because that's the way it happened in the movie.