Batman without gadjets vs 50 thugs

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Batman feats that were shown displayed him moving faster than any human can respond (they would be a statue). He was shown to bat bullets away, moving to catch arrows at the last possible instant, dodge hails or barrages of bullets aimed at him, etc. He has been shown to have super human speed and strength multiple times by real life standards.

6 men will be within arms reach when they sufficiently close the distance on Batman.

Batman moves faster than any human can respond? Ok, you've gone full on delusional.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Batman moves faster than any human can respond? Ok, you've gone full on delusional.

Now you can argue PIS if you want and claim that he won't have that level of speed against the 50 thugs although he has shown the speed on panel multiple times.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman WAS SHOWN to move faster than any human can respond multiple times.

Now you can argue PIS if you want and claim that he won't have that level of speed against the 50 thugs although he has shown the speed on panel multiple times.

Are you sure that you want to add some qualifiers to that statement?

Originally posted by ares834
Are you just trolling or are you too stupid to put 2 and 2 together?

You're missing the entire point, he's not actually posted or named any actual feats...Even I can name several speed/strength and skill feats off the top of my head for Batman and I'm not even a big fan....hell I could spend 2 minutes in the respect thread and post scans. but he hasn't even done that much.

His entire argument is based on what he's heard other people say about Batman

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you sure that you want to add some qualifiers to that statement?

So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

Originally posted by jitay
So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

It's pretty much what I was trying to hint at, but you expressed it better.

Originally posted by jitay
So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

I liked it 😍

Originally posted by jitay
So no one has says anything about my beautifully laid out arguament ;_;

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Wut

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's pretty much what I was trying to hint at, but you expressed it better.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I liked it 😍

Thanks guys

I do wanna see him try to refute my arguament though, cos that whining Lil shite is annoying and getting in my nerves

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I've already shown him being dogpiled from all directions...the attackby Arkham inmates.

In any case, am using my pphone to type this out..when I get back, will post further showing how limited real world logic is compared to comics.

But the crux of my argument will be, he is beyond even peak human. The world record for an unassisted (no bench shirt, belt, elbow wraps etc is by Eric Spoto. He did this with assistance. Google image search him...this is a guy who trains everyday with only one goal in mind.

Real world logic means he'd throw four or five punches, then collapse, out of breath. Let alone the cardio gymnastics Bats does.

And Batman does over 1000lb, no belt etc, routinely....by real world logic, he'd be a hulking roided out tub of lard. Who'd run 50metres then collapse, huffing and puffing. Let alone last a 3 minute boxing round.

there wasnt 50 people over there.
the thing with arkham asylum had less people and even if they are more dangerous than the average thug it still doesnt mean much for batman as he can take them out easily.
with 50 thugs even if he takes 1 out it wont take too much away from the numbers therefor in this situation numbers = slightly more dangerous if anything.

if you believe batman is beyond peak human than i will ask you what is a peak human? who said the best athlete our world at the moment has to offer is the peak a human can get? peak human means the peak any human being can ever get.
i saw batman dislocating his shoulder while trying to lift a weight.
i saw batman easily overpowered and overshadowed by deathstroke who really is beyond peak human but to a very slight degree.
deathstroke is the bottom of the super human category, he is considered an enhanced human, somewhere around wolverine to be honest.
and yet with those stats he was clearly above batman easily.
batman is at best a peak human.

as i said again, even if we apply real logic we still can imagine scientificly how someone who is a peak human could handle himself.
however even with such abilities it still not enough for him to overcome such a sheer amount of people who are trying to hurt him attacking at the very same time relentlessly.
possible? maybe, but more chances he will get defeated.

i never saw him bench pressing m,ore than 1000 lbs.
lets not try to give him super human atributes, he does impressive things but its not like he can lift above a ton or anything.
as i explained even with his strength it still impossible to get out of a dogpile consisting of such numbers.

Bullshit

Originally posted by jitay
Yes you are

OP states that the thugs have basic H2H knowledge

Nowhere does it state that they are using teamwork our that they will function as a cohesive unit or that they will I'm any way be fighting smart

As seen with most teams, the x-men being the one that comes closest to mind, they have to train with rather every day in order to work as well a they do and even then they still use attack formations so that everyone will know where they need to be in order not to get in anyone else's way.

Now from your OP it doesn't sound like they've worked with each other before so it is inevitable that accidents will happen they will get in each others way all miking for the glory of being the one to take put Batman down and if you think that Batman won't capitilise in that then you don't know the Bat

Don't get me wrong I had your opinion that Bats would get stomped out but your constant whining and Darks arguament swayed me

yes they do have basic fighting skills and street knowledge so? how does it contradict anything?

i dont need to state they use a team work.
all i was stating is the fact they use common street fighting knowledge and will team up at him and fight him simultaneously, the reason i stated average street knowledge is because of the fact even the dumbest group of thugs will always jump someone all together to beat his a$$.
but then again i guess people like yourself cant comprehend such things and have to be spoon feed to understand anything.
before you are calling me whiny, why wont you clean the anal blood from being butthurt over this thread and reread my points again and understand where you fail.
if you still cant? i will help you.

you dont have to train as a freakin team to just jump someone at the same time... your so called strawman logic makes you look dumb.

as i said i will repeat again, they dont have to be a former team, nor do they have to practice as a team to just jump someone at the same time relentlessly, the common hood rats can do it, might as well thugs fighting batman do it as well.

there is no whining and no changing, i am holding everything true to what i said before.
50 thugs who have basic street fighting knowledge that are not colplete idiots that fight him 1 vs 1 are fighting batman and thats it.
it is you whi is trying to look for some gaps because you realise he cant win that way unless they are brain dead and going at him 1 by 1.

Originally posted by h1a8
Batman WAS SHOWN to move faster than any human can respond multiple times.
.

what do you mean by saying any human? what are the human abilities?
nightwing is a human, batgirl is human, joker is human, two face is just human, thugs that hurt him with chains are human, and they all could react perfectly to batman.
by saying human are you talking about some beer drinking potato couch loser?

Originally posted by wolverinos
batman is not very beyond realism.
batman is a portray of someone who is at a peak human level of abilities.
however even a guy with peak abilities is not beyond reason such as say somebody who is a super human.

in comics he was shown to win some, other times he was hurt, but eventually are you assuming all humans has the same strength and overall skill and stat level? he may fight a group of losers and win easily.
he may fight a group of thugs with a slight level of intellect which will utilize the situation and the numbers properly and beat him down.
my scenario presents 50 guys that actually utilize their numbers and attack him from all directions at the same time and dogpile him, stomp and whats not.
now by batmans feats, what feats provide some kind of evidence that he can reacts to hits comming at him from 6 different directions at the very same time?

even if he can press 100 its still not enough to get out of such a human dogpile while the people are resisting.
for example wrestling... you may press for example 210lbs, and then you wrestle with someone who is 180 lbs and it will be much harder to get him off, why? because he is using more pressure and resistance against you.
he is using his weight+force pressure.
therefor batman wont only have to deal with the weight, but the force each of them will provide on top of that.

Right, my more measured response, now that I have a PC.

This is Eric Spoto:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/581348_320349894739365_975569697_n.jpg

He holds the world record in the unassisted (no bench shirt) benchpress.

Look at him. Just...look at him. This is what a peak human bencher looks like. And when he did his 1-rep max, world record (722lbs), he had spotters, and elbow straps aiding him. Batman does 1044lb, no spotters, no straps, routinely.

Ignoring the sheer numbers, look at that picture again. This is a guy who weight trains obsessively, in order to bench something Batman does as a warmup. Put him into an MMA cage match against one opponent. Do you think he'd be able to do half the martial arts moves Batman pulls off? And do it over an entire night, every night? This is ignoring, of course, the comic book depictions of martial arts (so not just punching and kicking like in the televised matches, but acrobatic flipping around, spinning kicks etc).

Using real world logic, a peak human bencher would collapse after 2 minutes. However, Batman is far above real world peak humans its laughable to even use the term.

I mean, peak humans can't casually bend gun barrels with one hand:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbend.jpg

Snap handcuffs like they were nothing:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batchain1.jpg

Casually break human arms, through power armour:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/batmanodyssey6-triggersnap.jpg

There are others, but I think (hope) you get the point. Batman is far above a peak human, especially when you add all of his abilities and skills together. Hence, he would be so far above these average thugs, that their numbers advantage would mean little.

Now, your next point was then - show me Batman fighting against 6 or so opponents, and winning. The thing is, I do not have any. And I wouldn't have any. Because a fight with Batman is so quick, and he is so skilled, that he never has to deal with that many opponents at once.

There is also the psychological factor. There are no thugs in Gotham, America, or DC, who would swarm Batman in hand to hand combat, especially if they had no powers of their own. The reason? They know they will lose.

Originally posted by wolverinos

if you believe batman is beyond peak human than i will ask you what is a peak human? who said the best athlete our world at the moment has to offer is the peak a human can get? peak human means the peak any human being can ever get.

i never saw him bench pressing m,ore than 1000 lbs.
lets not try to give him super human atributes, he does impressive things but its not like he can lift above a ton or anything.
as i explained even with his strength it still impossible to get out of a dogpile consisting of such numbers.

When you have a human who not only knows, but is an expert, in 127 different martial arts (something some people take a whole lifetime to achieve) plus multiple degrees from the finest universities in various different subjects, plus the physical ability and time to train in order to bench over 1000lbs routinely (as I said before, his 1 rep max will be even higher), plus the ability to take time out to host fundraising parties, and take an active role in his business from the shadows.....AND then on top of that, fight crime every night, AND still find time for dinner, sleeping, JLA alien incursions etc....you come back to me and tell me a mere human in the real world is capable of doing all this, everyday, for years.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When you have a human who not only knows, but is an expert, in 127 different martial arts (something some people take a whole lifetime to achieve) plus multiple degrees from the finest universities in various different subjects, plus the physical ability and time to train in order to bench over 1000lbs routinely (as I said before, his 1 rep max will be even higher), plus the ability to take time out to host fundraising parties, and take an active role in his business from the shadows.....AND then on top of that, fight crime every night, AND still find time for dinner, sleeping, JLA alien incursions etc....you come back to me and tell me a mere human in the real world is capable of doing all this, everyday, for years.

Calling me butthurt... It doesn't work like that

I called you whiny cos you are but I respect your competently misguided attempt to use real world logic to this sort of sitch

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Right, my more measured response, now that I have a PC.

This is Eric Spoto:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/581348_320349894739365_975569697_n.jpg

He holds the world record in the unassisted (no bench shirt) benchpress.

Look at him. Just...look at him. This is what a peak human bencher looks like. And when he did his 1-rep max, world record (722lbs), he had spotters, and elbow straps aiding him. Batman does 1044lb, no spotters, no straps, routinely.

Ignoring the sheer numbers, look at that picture again. This is a guy who weight trains obsessively, in order to bench something Batman does as a warmup. Put him into an MMA cage match against one opponent. Do you think he'd be able to do half the martial arts moves Batman pulls off? And do it over an entire night, every night? This is ignoring, of course, the comic book depictions of martial arts (so not just punching and kicking like in the televised matches, but acrobatic flipping around, spinning kicks etc).

Using real world logic, a peak human bencher would collapse after 2 minutes. However, Batman is far above real world peak humans its laughable to even use the term.

I mean, peak humans can't casually bend gun barrels with one hand:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batbend.jpg

Snap handcuffs like they were nothing:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batchain1.jpg

Casually break human arms, through power armour:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Power-Strength/Strength/batmanodyssey6-triggersnap.jpg

There are others, but I think (hope) you get the point. Batman is far above a peak human, especially when you add all of his abilities and skills together. Hence, he would be so far above these average thugs, that their numbers advantage would mean little.

Now, your next point was then - show me Batman fighting against 6 or so opponents, and winning. The thing is, I do not have any. And I wouldn't have any. Because a fight with Batman is so quick, and he is so skilled, that he never has to deal with that many opponents at once.

There is also the psychological factor. There are no thugs in Gotham, America, or DC, who would swarm Batman in hand to hand combat, especially if they had no powers of their own. The reason? They know they will lose.

so wait a second, you are showing me some swollen up guy that lifts a lot and then you try to imply that this big fat blob is a peak human? again whats the definition of a peak human? a peak human is the peak a human being can ever achieve.
what this big guy achieved as far as his lifting is not what a human being can achieve, thats what he as an individual can achieve.

you are putting this guys achievements as they are the best any human being can achieve, tommorow someone will break his record and so on and so on, thats the way things work, there isnt a clear definition to that.
however there is a clear boundry which no human can supress which is lifting 2 tons or so for example or even a ton, not bench pressing but lifting.

as i explained earlier batman is indeed doing what ever a peak human should be able to do, nothing that he did is some kind of super human ability.
you show batman break cuffs? guess what? real humans can do that and even plenty of guys just search the web for videos.
bending some kind of pole? Lol thousands of people can perform more impressive feats than that.
you wana go real life records vs batman? how about guys dragging trucks? how about guys actually ripping off pieces of metal with their bare hands? twisting solid metal?
as i explained before batman doesnt do anything that really can be considered above anything a human can dream to do.
and as i said before when he went up against someone who is slightly in the super human category we saw a big gap which clearly showed us batman is no where at the super human category and not even at enhanced category.
hell freakin bane is at enhanced category when he is on venom and its perfectly clear as daylight that bane on venom is physically superior to batman by miles.
bane with no venom is batmans equal at stats and bane without venom is high athletic - peak human category.

so basically as i said earlier i will say again, batman does not have the stats to take out 50 guys attacking him at once.