Ben Kenobi vs Count Dooku

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not seeing anything. I think you might be thinking that because its on fire and bits are breaking off, but thats just because its getting closer to the sun. You can see it start to enter the suns "atmosphere" on the second page.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Anakin IS always mad, but he's always suppressing those feelings, making him very conflicted in fights.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku's owned Ventress with a finger (not like that, you dirty boy). He ripped a huge metal structure out of a wall. He lifted about a hundred tons of rock quite easily. He's consistently shown that he's better than Anakin in Force abilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not seeing anything suggesting otherwise.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your not taking into account that Anakin was tapping into his hate and rage. We've seen him get huge boosts by that, like how he went from losing to Ventress to stomping her, or how he stomped Dooku in RotS.

I'm writing this feat off almost entirely now.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Savage pushed Obi-Wan

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lawl.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I believe the best accolade for Anakins lightsaber skill is Dooku commenting that his Djem So is as good as anyones he'd seen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hasn't he gotten tired in many fights in the Clone Wars?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ventress ran away,

Originally posted by Nephthys
he beat Bulq,

Ventress Mace ran way

Originally posted by Nephthys
he beat Grievous

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You haven't proven that he was talking about overall prowess. You also haven't proven that Mace is faster than Obi-Wan or Maul

I've proven he was clearly talking about more than just skill. It's quite apparent what his levels were about. If you want to suggest he meant something completely different now, then it's up to you to prove that without using EU stuff, because Gillard doesn't give 2 squats about the EU.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Thats ambiguous as to whether Lucas was talking about Anakin as of RotS or some time in the future. And he's obviously talking about the latter.

It's really not that obvious. How long in the future is he talking? He's not made that clear at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Anakin couldn't even beat Obi-Wan, you seriously think he has a chance vs Sidious?

By that argument Anakin shouldn't have stood a chance against Dooku either.

I personally think Anakin would get TK Stomped by Sidious. But he wouldn't get stomped in Sabers. Not at all.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I've proven he was clearly talking about more than just skill.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Where

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He said you can jump from an 8 to a 9 by embracing the added power of the dark side. Common sense tells us that technical skill will not increase by changing sides.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You haven't proven that he was talking about overall prowess. You also haven't proven that Mace is faster than Obi-Wan or Maul

Dozens of blows per second, and even Anakin could not follow his movements in his duel with Sidious. Granted Skywalker is in a shitty state of mind, but its not a stretch to say Mace is faster than Anakin.

Because he was amped. He never moved too fast for anyone like Tiin or Bulq to see. Also, DP, sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Because he was amped. He never moved too fast for anyone like Tiin or Bulq to see. Also, DP, sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

1. He owned Bulq.
2. Bulq is one of the most skilled duelists in the Order's 20,000 year history and mastered all 7 forms.
3. Tiin is also one of the most skilled duelists in history.
4. Prove Mace was going all out against either of them. Jedi restraint is a huge part of Mace's philosophy.

1. Did you even read their fight? Their fight was inconclusive. They clash blades, Bulq hurls Mace, they clash blades, Mace hurls Bulq, Mace runs away.

2. So?

3. So?

4. 😐 Your point has no basis. Never has it been stated nor even implied he didn't give his all against them. Prove he held back or stop spreading your baseless speculation.

Dooku takes it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
1. He owned Bulq.

Whaaaat? He even didn't beat him. This fight was pretty equal, and even if Mace would win at the end, it would be far from "own". Just Mace's victory at best.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dozens of blows per second, and even Anakin could not follow his movements in his duel with Sidious. Granted Skywalker is in a shitty state of mind, but its not a stretch to say Mace is faster than Anakin.

No, it's not. Grievous was fast enough, to strikes with 20 blows per second, and Kenobi was able to block or dodge all of them. Do you think, that Anakin or Obi-Wan were able to see every single of Greivous's blows? I don't think so. Not by their eyes at least. But with the force's aid - yeah.
Anyway, it's all from Stover's novel. in the same novel, he confirms, that Anakin is the fastest jedi.

And if we wants to rely on the movie, well, Anakin was faster during his duel with Kenobi, then Mace was during his duel with Sidious.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Also, DP, sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

He was obviously referring to more than just technical skill with his levels, since he said someone can potentially jump up from a level 8 to a level 9 by embracing the greater power of the Dark Side.

So his levels seem to refer to overall Saber Prowess.

Getting better because you're embracing the dark side doesn't even make sense. Dooku was equal with Mace as a Jedi but also as a Sith.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
The hell are you talking about? He's above ROTS Kenobi, just his simple comments can make you see that. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful then you can possibly imagine." AND "You can't win, Darth." Obi-Wan isn't one to over-exaggerate.

The latter is in the long-term sense.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Getting better because you're embracing the dark side doesn't even make sense. Dooku was equal with Mace as a Jedi but also as a Sith.

Yoda outright tells Dooku in AOTC: "Powerful you have become Dooku, the Dark Side I sense in you." Plus the ROTS Novel says something like Dooku was an even more powerful Sith Lord than he was a Jedi. So there's no doubt Dooku grew more powerful after embracing the Dark Side.

But Mace also grew more powerful over the years. In fact we know he's improved after the events of Shatterpoint during the Clone Wars.

But all in all I think getting a boost from the Dark Side is likely a "potential" boost and probably not a "guaranteed" one.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
1. Did you even read their fight? Their fight was inconclusive. They clash blades, Bulq hurls Mace, they clash blades, Mace hurls Bulq, Mace runs away.

2. So?

3. So?

4. 😐 Your point has no basis. Never has it been stated nor even implied he didn't give his all against them. Prove he held back or stop spreading your baseless speculation.

1. It ends with Bulq on his ass. Mace won easily once he put any effort in.

2. So they aren't jokes.

4. It does have basis dumbass. Someone who is able to fight on par with Darth Sidious and Dooku isn't going to have trouble with Sora Bulq and Tiin.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Getting better because you're embracing the dark side doesn't even make sense. Dooku was equal with Mace as a Jedi but also as a Sith.

Dooku wasn't equal with Mace as a Jedi. He was superior. Its stated Dooku defeated Mace in sparring matches, never the other way around. And yes he did grow more powerful.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
1. It ends with Bulq on his ass.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
2. So they aren't jokes.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
4. It does have basis dumbass.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Someone who is able to fight on par with Darth Sidious

Originally posted by Lord Stark
and Dooku

Originally posted by Lord Stark
isn't going to have trouble with Sora Bulq and Tiin.

Originally posted by You
So they aren't jokes.

I would like to remind everyone that in the film, Anakin didn't even enter the chamber room until after Mace had already disarmed Palps and knocked him to the ground-- he never "saw" any portion of their battle beforehand. ie. the part of the novelization in which Anakin enters the chamber before Palps is disarmed, and watches he and Mace fight at 'blur-esque' speeds for a fairly lengthy duration of time, is 100% non-canon.

That is all. 🙂

I would also like to point that in the movie, Mace doesn't even react/do anything to help Tiin and Kolar until Sidious engages him in combat.

Originally posted by Galan007
I would like to remind everyone that in the film, Anakin didn't even enter the chamber room until after Mace had already disarmed Palps and knocked him to the ground-- he never "saw" any portion of their battle beforehand. ie. the part of the novelization in which Anakin enters the chamber before Palps is disarmed, and watches he and Mace fight at 'blur-esque' speeds for a fairly lengthy duration of time, is 100% non-canon.

That is all. 🙂

👆