Originally posted by Quincy
Screen Junkies said it really well "Kylo Ren is the Anakin Skywalker we deserved"
Pretty much. Didn't even mind his toddler-esque tamper tantrums, entertaining in a wtf way. Guy's an unhinged obsessive Vader fanboy.
Suspect he'll continue to sink down the evil-hole further and further as the series progressives, question is, will he turn to the light at the end like Vader.
Originally posted by The_TempestI do agree it went on for too long but the emotion and the buildup was awesome especially when Anakin went at him.
My only gripe with Anakin/Obi-Wan is that it went on forever and ever and ever and ever. But yeah, tons of choreography and emotion. Not mutually exclusive.
Originally posted by Robtard
Why the negative outlook so early in?And granted, I share the sentiment that a lot of people had, much of this is what we've seen already, plots, characters, scenes etc. But it's still good.
If he doesn't come back then it spits in the face of Luke trying to save his father and is bleak as bleak can get(sometimes your family turns evil and there is NO saving them).
If he does come back it's basically a less effective Vader since we've been seeing his struggled and tormented face the whole time. The kid also killed
Spoiler:so why should I WANT him to come back to the light? The thing about Vader coming back is we never get to see his face and we're left to our imagination how he feels about facing his son in battle. We're also not rooting for Vader to come back for Vader's sake. We want him to come back so Luke doesn't have to murder his father and he can prove Yoda/Ben wrong. Ren has already been giving the chance, spat the good guys in the face, and made an irrevocable decision(even Vader, while evil, was never going to kill Luke). If Ren and the hero turn out to be related....so what? I know Ren would kill them if given the chance so why should I not want Ren to be killed first?
Han
It also helps that I still cannot fathom a reason for Ren to have turned to the Darkside. Anakin had enough baggage to fill up the Death Star but aside from some grandpa issues(with a dude he never met) I don't see what Ren had to worry about.
Originally posted by AuraAngelLol okay, Show me a Star Wars villain more complex than Kylo...There may be a few but not many. He was corrupted by Snoke and he's constantly trying not to get seduced by the LIGHT side of the force. It's really the first time we've seen anything like that. His struggles, tantrums, fanboyism....it all makes him a much more nuanced villain than we've had in SW in a long time, if ever.
If it is that easy and Ren just wants power for powers sake then he is not sympathetic in the slightest, leading to the two endings.It also means he's not complex. He's just an evil git who wants power for....reasons.
Gee, I dunno, Vader? The guy that goes down in history as one of Cinema's best villains?
Ben's story is that he was good, became bad, and now is tempted to become good again. Beat by beat Vader. Except the lines mean nothing. "I will not be seduced by the light!" has nothing on "It is too late for me son" or "I must obey the Emperor." Vader's hardship is impeccable.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
If it is that easy and Ren just wants power for powers sake then he is not sympathetic in the slightest, leading to the two endings.It also means he's not complex. He's just an evil git who wants power for....reasons.
Wait are you worried we don't know yet what's caused him to head towards the dark side? Or worried that what we've seen is all we'll get?
Originally posted by Inhuman
Also it could be that some people want fights like to resemble "Middle Ages sword fights", others dont mind something like "Shaolin, crouching tiger hidden dragon type sword fights". I just find it that a Jedi with enhanced reflexes, agility, speed etc, doesnt really make sense to fight methodically and lumbering like if they are wielding a broadsword.
I guess there could be a middle ground. *shrug*
You can. Check out "Hero" or "House of the Flying Daggers" for instance, there can be emotion and skill.
What the PT lacked was emotion. And the Anakin/OB1 fight, well, for one, these guys never got along so I never found it very different from what they had been doing for two movies, except now with lightsabers and a completely overacted 'I hate you' attitude.
But look at it: swinging on ropes over a lava stream. Jumping like Super Mario Bros from tower to flying droids they surf on, weird senseless twirling, Force pushing each others hands... this is truly the most overblown and ridiculous fight ever.
Compare that to the fight in ROTJ. I'd watch that any time. Also because the fight has a narrative structure and flow, there's development, change... emotionally and in the fighting itself too. There's a lot at stake in that fight, both characters are emotionally invested and whoever wins, the outcome is unclear.
In the Anakin/OB1 fight it's just two people doing weird stuff. All the time, it's long but it's the same thing all the time. Anakin hates oB1 and wants to kill him. There's more drama, tension and development in the
Spoiler:than in this entire fight.
Han Solo - Kylo Ren confrontation in TFA
Sorry, fanboys, I know you like all beads and mirrors Lucas made you shine before your eyes, but it's all very lousy storytelling.
Originally posted by AuraAngelI said there may be one or two. But I would argue that Kylo in one movie has shown more nuance than Vader did in one movie. Vader was more "Evil for the sake of Evil" than Kylo dude. If you want to lambaste Kylo at least get your facts straight.
Gee, I dunno, Vader? The guy that goes down in history as one of Cinema's best villains?Ben's story is that he was good, became bad, and now is tempted to become good again. Beat by beat Vader. Except the lines mean nothing. "I will not be seduced by the light!" has nothing on "It is too late for me son" or "I must obey the Emperor." Vader's hardship is impeccable.
Also, Vader had 6 movies for us to get to know him. Kylo has had one.