Star Wars: The Force Awakens · Movie Discussion

Darth Thor Senior Member

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yup, that is a shame because the movie did so many things very well, but have an original story was not one of them. But hey, that's what Hollywood does, is rehash the same plot. Look at Jurassic World. It was extremely successful and it was pretty much a remake of JP1.
The studio could have had a big hand in the writing. They wanted to jumpstart the series in a big way, so what better way than to go back to the beginning? It's all about reboots these days.

Yeah but Star Wars has always been about Originality and Imagination for me. Just doesn't feel Star Wars to me with such a lack of imagination.

Still I can't say I didn't enjoy the movie.

Spoiler:
Seeing the Millenium Falcon for the first time, and that whole escape from Jakku was just too frigging Awesome. Plus opening crawl and the final scene with no action or dialogue was just really well done and gave me goosebumps and had me craving for more.

Balancing it all out I'd rate it 7/10. Problem was I was expecting a 9/10, but didn't get that.

queeq Chaos

The PT also has a lot of repetition and lack of originality (Anakin also from Tatooine, Anakin and Luke get arms chopped off, Anakin has the same droids as Luke, OB1 wearing the same clothes etc. etc.). ROTJ showed ANOTHER Death Star.

So when it comes to real originality that works, we're only talking about ANH and ESB.

Now we have something quite similar, but IMHO with a fresh approach. That wins for me. I enjoyed it more the second viewing. Another next week.

Quincy Debaser

I found Kylo Ren a really interesting villain. It seems I'm certainly not alone in that thought process.

I think the folks mostly upset with the ending fight outcome are folks like us, who take this jedi training stuff really seriously.

The Force being stronger in a character is enough for me to be like "Oh that makes sense they'd win then"

Darth Thor Senior Member

Originally posted by Quincy
I found Kylo Ren a really interesting villain. It seems I'm certainly not alone in that thought process.
I think the folks mostly upset with the ending fight outcome are folks like us, who take this jedi training stuff really seriously.
The Force being stronger in a character is enough for me to be like "Oh that makes sense they'd win then"

Sort of, but I just feel that Saber fight was forced into the movie for the sake of it.

I thought

Spoiler:
Finn Saber fighting that Trooper

was much more entertaining and didn't feel forced.

Originally posted by queeq
The PT also has a lot of repetition and lack of originality (Anakin also from Tatooine, Anakin and Luke get arms chopped off, Anakin has the same droids as Luke, OB1 wearing the same clothes etc. etc.). ROTJ showed ANOTHER Death Star. So when it comes to real originality that works, we're only talking about ANH and ESB.

Respectfully disagree.

Having links to the OT is not a lack of Originality. But the Plot of every Lucas SW film was completely different Imho.

Having a Second Death Star is something you can do Once, because you're like (oh crap it's back!), but not twice. Plus there was the twist of- It's not finished/operational, oh wait it is. But again the Plot of ROTJ was completely different to both ANH and ESB.

Then there's the Second thing I said which was "Imagination."

Every Star Wars film gave us completely new and different worlds and crossed special effect boundaries every single time, and just gave us very new things to see in general.

Whatever you say about Lucas's faults/weaknesses, you can't deny the guy has an Amazing Imagination.

I'm giving this movie credit where I feel it deserves it (the characters and dialogue was executed much better than Lucas has done in a long long time). But it's not above criticism so I'm also pointing out the parts where I could feel the lack of Lucas.

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Saving graces of the film

Rey

I didn't think I'd like her as much as I did judging by the trailers. And while it's obvious to everyone that she is Luke's daughter—the lightsaber scene, force sensitivity, etc.—her backstory and her presentation as a technological scavenger awaiting the return of her family really makes her stand out among the underdeveloped rabble that surrounds her.

Chewbacca

I don't know if it's his war cries or what it is. But I really liked him in this movie, and I'm glad to see that he'll stick around for now.

My problems with the movie

First Order

Everything from Hux's speech to the colors of its banners points to that First Order is a caricature of Nazi Germany's New Order, which made them seem more like a parody of a threat than an actual threat.

Knights of Ren

Out of all the things you the director decided to keep the Sith name wasn't one of them? They are almost as iconic as the Jedi! Now I hope that there's a difference between the Knights of Ren and the Sith in terms of philosophy or whatnot, but judging by Kylo Ren's worship of Darth Vader's skull there's a good chance that there won't be.

~~Death Sta...~~ Starkiller Base

This was just lazy. Everything from its set up to its destruction. We already went through two Death Stars throughout the original trilogy. There are other ways to write Star Wars.

Storm Troopers

I thought all Storm Troopers were clones that were genetically engineered to not value self-preservation over loyalty to the Empire. But clearly both Finn and his commander weren't.

Kylo Ren

The actor is ugly, and I don't mean "Holywood ugly" I mean real life ugly. But it does help that he's a Darth Vader fanboy and chooses to wear a mask even though it makes no practical sense. His doubt in his choice to follow Snoke, his desire for power and the fact that he had trouble fighting Finn and was later dominated by Rey made him come across as an underwhelming antagonist.

Interrogation methods

Since when could Sith Lords read minds? In A New Hope Darth Vader specifically called for that syringe-droid to interrogate Lea, which was a lot scarier considering that we didn't know the side-effects of the drugs that were about to be used. Instead we get a harmless magical mind scan.

Darth Thor Senior Member

^ Stormtroopers were not even clones in the OT.

They specifically put the line about Not using a Clone Army to put aside any confusion.

Quincy Debaser

Clones were the OT Stormtroopers.

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Stormtroopers were not even clones in the OT.

It was specified in the original trilogy that Storm Troopers weren't clones?

Quincy Debaser

He's confused, the line in The Force Awakens means that the First Order Stormtroopers aren't clones.

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Originally posted by Quincy
He's confused, the line in The Force Awakens means that the First Order Stormtroopers aren't clones.

Yeah. But that's the problem. If J.J. Abrams wants to change something that's been established and the change doesn't make sense then he has to explain why it should make sense.

"It serves the plot," is not an excuse that would convince the in-universe leaders of the First Order recruiting the Storm Troopers.

It's bad writing, plain and simple.

Newjak I am Beyond Power

Originally posted by Astner
It was specified in the original trilogy that Storm Troopers weren't clones?

It was shown that the Empire had been recruiting people for their military. After all Luke wanted to go to Academy to become a fighter pilot and during the clone wars even the pilots were clones so obviously they don't solely use clones anymore by the time the OT is taking place.

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Originally posted by Newjak
It was shown that the Empire had been recruiting people for their military.

Not as Storm Troopers.

The Attack of the Clones established the Storm Troopers as genetically perfect soldiers. So the idea that the Empire or the First Order would recruit people doesn't make sense.

Newjak I am Beyond Power

Originally posted by Astner
Not as Storm Troopers.

Yes but it shows that positions normally held by clones were not solely for clones anymore.

We could also look at the fact that the Storm troopers were various heights with different voices in the OT.

Or we could look at the fact that two people of different sizes wearing stormtrooper armor were walking around and no one questioned it.

So we have proof that military recruited none clones and storm troopers that were obviously not clones of each other or anyone else around them.

At this point I think the onus is on you to prove stormtroopers were only clones at the time of the OT.

Trocity Undefeated and Undisputed

The Empire shut down the cloning facilities on Kamino between the PT and OT.

Stormtroopers from the OT are not clones of Jango Fett.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Astner
Not as Storm Troopers.
The Attack of the Clones established the Storm Troopers as genetically perfect soldiers. So the idea that the Empire or the First Order would recruit people doesn't make sense.

They explain they take people at a very early age from their families and train them.

The clone wars were the clone wars but this had nothing to do with what happened after they ended.

Newjak I am Beyond Power

Originally posted by Trocity
The Empire shut down the cloning facilities on Kamino between the PT and OT.
Stormtroopers from the OT are not clones of Jango Fett.

That's EU though unless I'm forgetting something and I'm trying to stay out of that realm for evidence. Mostly because Disney has said that the EU before Disney is pretty much gone.

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Originally posted by Newjak
Yes but it shows that positions normally held by clones were not solely for clones anymore.

Those positions were never held by clones. The Storm Troopers replaced the Droid army.

Originally posted by Newjak
We could also look at the fact that the Storm troopers were various heights with different voices in the OT.

All Storm Troopers seemed equally tall as far as I recall, and their voices were added on later through a noise filter making their voices indistinguishable.

Originally posted by Newjak
Or we could look at the fact that two people of different sizes wearing stormtrooper armor were walking around and no one questioned it.

This is actually a valid point, but it may well have been due to plot induced stupidity; or maybe George Lucas hadn't thought of the clones at that point.

Either way it was established in the Attack of the Clones that the clone army made regular recruits obsolete so the idea that the Empire or the First Order would stop using clones requires an explanation; and since it wasn't provided, it's bad writing.

Patient_Leech Perfect Organism

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but Star Wars has always been about Originality and Imagination for me. Just doesn't feel Star Wars to me with such a lack of imagination.
Still I can't say I didn't enjoy the movie.
Spoiler:
Seeing the Millenium Falcon for the first time, and that whole escape from Jakku was just too frigging Awesome. Plus opening crawl and the final scene with no action or dialogue was just really well done and gave me goosebumps and had me craving for more.
Balancing it all out I'd rate it 7/10. Problem was I was expecting a 9/10, but didn't get that.

I hear ya. It was done so well, and was very good, but could have been stellar with a more original story.

I did like Kylo Ren as a villain.

Spoiler:
Wish he had put the light saber down and been redeemed, though.

We've never seen that in a Star Wars movie before. It would be interesting.

Bashar Teg Senior Mentat

wanna know what really bugged the shit out of me? rey understanding what bb-8 was saying. how does that make any sense at all?

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
wanna know what really bugged the shit out of me? rey understanding what bb-8 was saying. how does that make any sense at all?

The droids use those sounds to communicate, so it only makes sense that those beeps would follow an advanced form of Morse Code which shouldn't be impossible to learn provided that the sounds are primarily within the human hearing spectrum.