Originally posted by The_TempestJoffrey was only dangerous because other people gave him power to torment others.
Joffrey was dangerous, definitely, but he's not someone I'd describe as "intimidating."Tyson Lannister is intimidating.
We are literally taking about a character, who despite technically being the king of a nation, publicly had the shit slapped out of him by a midget.
Joffrey was only ever a threat because of other people, and stood no chance of accomplishing anything on his own. He probably needs help wiping his ass.
Originally posted by NemeBro
You've never seen a single episode of the show or read a single page from the books, have you?
Joffrey getting his ass kicked by Arya then blamed her friend who got killed shows cunning.
Joffrey mistook that hooker as Tyrion's love interest & tortured & killed her.
That's pretty cunning in my opinion.
He also went out of his way to break & humiliate Sansa every chance he got.
You need to be cunning before you can be malicious.
Joffrey also went out of his way to organise the troupe of midget performers to publicly humiliate Tyrion. Organising that performance without anyone's knowledge...to get the full shock value...kinda pretty much points to being cunning.
Poe Dameron getting his own comic series
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvel-announces-poe-dameron-series-from-soule-noto
Originally posted by NemeBro
😂You do realize that the character you're calling intimidating got the shit kicked out of him by a girl who was several years younger than him, right?
Not saying he was a physical beast or something Lol. But he clearly had power and was a pure sicko the way he'd abuse that power. That is intimidating IMO.
More so than someone (Kylo) who throws child tantrums against furniture and computers, but you know will calm down later, and whose clearly conflicted when he does evil.
Joffrey would make you stare at your Dad's head for kicks. Wouldn't matter if he's angry or not. And without a bit of conflict or remorse in him.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, I'll explain some of it by quoting myself back to you:You're overlooking very important dialogue to make statements like this.
The Trade Federation denied some of the accusations of Queen Amidala. They literally said things to the senate like, "outrageous accusations" and "there's no proof."
Also, why did the Trade Federation do what it did?
Money. They wanted more money from Naboo to use their trade routes. Naboo refused. So the Trade Federation blockaded Naboo and galactic goods could not really be shipped too or from Naboo, choking off Naboo from the outside planets.
And the senate was debating the legalities of this blockade. Guess where I got this information from? The opening crawl of The Phantom Menace.
Well, except for everyone caring. Which is the entire point of the film. They are arguing over it even before the movie's events take place...according to the opening crawl. Keep in mind that part of the problem of the Republic is it become extremely difficult to get anything done, was highly corrupt, and had groups of cooperating people who opposed other groups. This was one of the points in the film made at least 3 times from what I can remember (perhaps more). One of the people who made that point was Palpatine.
I should also note that the Chancellor "secretly dispatched 2 Jedi to Naboo to negotiate with the Viceroy. It wouldn't be a secret if everyone knew. And the Neimoidians would clearly not negotiate with Jedi "ambassadors." They were sent there to strong-arm the Trade Federation to back off. Palp pretended (this word "pretended" is very important to understand, later on, because he knew that the Viceroy wouldn't be able to kill the Jedi) that he wasn't having that so he ordered them to kill the Jedi. Poison gas. Was ineffective, though. 🙂
It seems like I'm just summarizing the movie back to you, at this point.
I just explained it. Here it is again:
I can explain this even more simply for you:
1. Palps wanted to rule the galaxy. So he creates a false political problem to show how ineffective and shitty the current Supreme Chancellor is (he wants that guy's job).
2. Palps plan works and he becomes the Supreme Chancellor.
So you want to know why people would need to sign a treaty during a military conflict? You also want to know why signing was important to ending a galactic trade dispute?
I don't know what you're really asking. Are you calling into question why we humans place importance on signing treaties with each other and why signatures mean anything since it is just symbols on a piece of paper? That's not something that really is the fault of George Lucas.
Expand on what you mean, here, because it seems more like you're attacking the idea of why humans sign documents that end military conflicts.
Also, the Trade Federation invading Naboo was supposedly illegal to the Republic's rules. Probably because both parties are members of the same Republic so you would naturally have rules about not killing the shit out of each other. Just a guess.
By "he needed Padme", I assume you mean he needed her to physically be present in the Senate to give her speech?
There's an alternative to your perspective. Palps would be very familiar with Jedi's abilities. Poison gas wouldn't work. Droids probably wouldn't work, either. So by telling the Neimoidians to kill the Jedi, he was really planning for the Neimoidians to get scared so they'd be easier to manipulate to invade Naboo shortly after they escape. Which is exactly what Palps had them do: had them invade Naboo after the Jedi escape their execution.
If Padme makes a believable escape, it makes for a better sympathy vote (hardships to talk about). So what happens if the Jedi were killed? That probably meant that all of his plans would have fallen apart.
Also, I think your idea probably could have worked, too: Palps is a Naboo senator. He could have used Naboo's situation, with some pleads for help from the Queen, as a sympathy vote to get him elected. But he would have to be the one to say that the Supreme Chancellor gets removed with a "Vote of no Confidence." Carries less weight. Seems far more likely that Palps plan was exactly what happened.
He wasn't the one to send out the notion of a "Vote of no confidence" in the current Supreme Chancellor. It was Queen Amidala who pushed that motion to the Senate after they said they would send a committee to investigate the invasion claims of Amidala (because the Trade Federation denied invading). One of the famous lines from Amidala was uttered after the offering of an investigative committee: "I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee!"
I didn't really explain it. I just summarized the film, quoted characters, and referred to the opening crawl.
Yes, but you didn't make it make more sense. And doesn't TPM sound extremely boring if this is the central plotline? 😉
Just a few things though:
1. when it comes to the treaty. I don't want to know how people sign papers. Frankly, I don't care much about the whole fake political stuff we get in this movie. But... why doesn't Amidala just sign the treaty? If it's just about money.... She signs it and they go away.... What's IN the treaty that they make this the crucial thing that's to resolve this issue? They don't do this at other planets or other planets have already signed. So it takes a blockade, an invasion, people suffering in camps, a Sith Lord sent out... all this effort to get a treaty signed... for something.
Now, one could excuse this as a sort of McGuffin. But a McGuffin is usually something that gets the story in motion and should be done away with somewhere in the movie. But it's like saying in Raiders of the Lost Ark that we never know what the treasure is what Indy and the nazi's are after. If it would be Raiders of the Lost Treasure and we never get to see what the fuss is about... it wouldn't work. Then after a while you think: there must be something special about this thing that people want its so much. But what? This is exactly what happens in TPM.
2. The Jedi. What's the point of sending out Jedi 'in secret' and not report their findings when they come back? I mean, the are the 'guardians of peace and justice of the old Republic'. I suppose they have some standing in the galaxy. And if they don't: why send them?
Was it illegal for Valorum to send Jedi or was that in his jurisdiction? If it was in his right, why not let them testify or at least mention their reports in the Senate?
Let's suppose what OB1 says in ANH and what's said in the opening crawl of TPM that they are the guardians of peace and justice, why don't they play any role of importance in this conflict? they're pretty useless:
1. They go for negotiations, but they never take place.
2. They go down to warn the Naboo, but they come too late
3. They help Padme get out, but they can't fight a war for her
4. They get back to Coruscant, they report their findings, but nothing is done with them
5. They're sent back to Naboo, not to fight a war but to protect Padme (which they don't) and to identify their attacker (which they don't, they only find out that they're pretty sure it was a Sith Lord but at the end they are none the wiser).
3. Motion of no Confidence. You summarise the movie to me. But you don't explain to me why Palpy does anything to get Padme does anything to keep/get Padme on Naboo to sign the treaty, yet... he also needs her for the Motion of no Confidence to get Valorum out of the way. These two 'strategies' contradict. What does he want? The treaty signed (for some reason that can only be done on Naboo) or Valorum out of the way?
His strategies are either contradictory and don't make any sense or Sidious is so brilliant that whatever events take place, he always gets his way. Which then would make everything in the PT 'much ado about nothing'. But I think it's the first: it doesn't make sense, ergo sloppy writing.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
He kills & tortures who he wants without fear of reprisals.Ren dreams of being Joffrey.
👆
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Both acted immature for their age & status.
And both were cry babies. But like you said, Joffrey tortures and kills who he wants. Ren is Snoke's little b****, and all he seems to do is throw tantrums on furniture.
Kylo wasn't a wimp though. Joffrey was when he wasn't protected, I'll give that much to Kylo.