Revan, Malak, and Bastila VS Vader,Galen, and asajj Ventress .

*surpass

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not really. He's a very skilled duelist with some great TK feats.
He is probably TCW Darth Maul level, but the fact you say he is on average Jedi Master level is embarrassing for you.

Malak was a skilled duelist; his aggressive, one-handed style was no joke. But he was nowhere near Maul's level of lightsaber combat. Maul employed Juyo, eventually Dun Möch, Niman, Jar'Kai, Teräs Käsi, martial arts, and speed. He even managed to stay alive for longer than a few seconds while battling Sidious. In terms of lightsaber combat, Maul is better than Malak.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I recommend making a new account and starting over. PS: I see you still have your profile picture up, I am annoyed. :/

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
More at the new guy for barraging into a debate with no knowledge on anything at all.

I'm starting to think you just want my profile picture. lol Get over yourself. You underestimate Jedi Masters and overestimate Malak.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It is not as if Revan curbs each Darth Malak seven times, if that is the truth, the fight wouldn't "have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages."

Though you said earlier you take the Star Forge into account, you don't. Malak's power was bolstered. He was exposed to dark side energy from the Star Forge. That's why the battle would have been "a brutal, hard fought affair."

Since you love quotes so much, I'll throw in this one. What were the last words Malak said as he died? Oh, yes. "And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing."

*surpass

Malak was a skilled duelist; his aggressive, one-handed style was no joke. But he was nowhere near Maul's level of lightsaber combat. Maul employed Juyo, eventually Dun Möch, Niman, Jar'Kai, Teräs Käsi, martial arts, and speed. He even managed to stay alive for longer than a few seconds while battling Sidious. In terms of lightsaber combat, Maul is better than Malak.

I'm starting to think you just want my profile picture.

Though you said earlier you take the Star Forge into account, you don't. Malak's power was bolstered. He was exposed to dark side energy from the Star Forge. That's why the battle would have been "a brutal, hard fought affair."

Revan defeats Darth Malak, one of the most powerful Sith in history, who is stated to be extraordinary powerful in the Force, even with the Sith's powers was being amplified by the immense nexus of the Star Forge, and his strength constantly being replenished by six captured Jedi Knights. Incredible.

Since you love quotes so much, I'll throw in this one. What were the last words Malak said as he died? Oh, yes. "And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing."

I don't like you.
You don't like me.
Please stop talking to me.
Thank you.

Calm down bro.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
*surpass

Malak was a skilled duelist; his aggressive, one-handed style was no joke. But he was nowhere near Maul's level of lightsaber combat. Maul employed Juyo, eventually Dun Möch, Niman, Jar'Kai, Teräs Käsi, martial arts, and speed. He even managed to stay alive for longer than a few seconds while battling Sidious. In terms of lightsaber combat, Maul is better than Malak.

I'm starting to think you just want my profile picture. lol Get over yourself. You underestimate Jedi Masters and overestimate Malak.

Though you said earlier you take the Star Forge into account, you don't. Malak's power was bolstered. He was exposed to dark side energy from the Star Forge. That's why the battle would have been "a brutal, hard fought affair."

Since you love quotes so much, I'll throw in this one. What were the last words Malak said as he died? Oh, yes. "And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing."

"But that destiny was not mine, Revan. It might have been yours perhaps....but never mine. And in the end, as the darkness takes me, I am nothing."

That quote doesn't mean Malak didn't think he was powerful. It means that he thinks that while Revan could have ruled the galaxy, which KotOR II stomps in the face with his sudden disappearance in the Dark Side choice, Malak could not; this being because he couldn't defeat Revan as he is now. Both are stated to have improved in the five years since Malachor. Finally, it means as he dies, he was neither a Jedi or a Dark Lord of the Sith, he died doubting both.

Or it could mean he's weak, I guess Revan saying the exact same thing over three centuries later also means that he is weak.

I want him banned.
He's the first member here who has made me debate against Revan.

I want him banned.

UPDATE: He's from CV.
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darknessx7/
Explains a lot.

I feel bad for you, DarthAnt66. I had an entire response ready, but I realize that this is a futile argument. Your emotions are clearly clouding your judgment. If I must be banned, and I am deserving of it, then so be it. But I have nothing against you. It's too bad it came to this so quickly.

Goodbye.
Your response would have been poor, like your logic, if you seriously think Malak is equal to average Jedi Master level. Like damn, I never even heard such a low claim before.

Originally posted by DarknessX7
I feel bad for you, DarthAnt66. I had an entire response ready, but I realize that this is a futile argument. Your emotions are clearly clouding your judgment. If I must be banned, and I am deserving of it, then so be it. But I have nothing against you. It's too bad it came to this so quickly.

Don't worry about Ant, it's just that time of month again. You won't be banned.

"That remains to be seen."
-Vitiate (TOR Revan)

I do agree with Ant however that Malak is far above average jedi master level.

No one in humanity disagrees with me on that...

Spoiler:
Besides him.

Also Neph, after much consideration, I'm not divorcing you.
However you need to pay for our second honeymoon.
If you don't, I'll tell everyone about your dirty secret.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Malak would know by sensing his strength, then Darth Revan's. :/

All Sith overestimate their own power. They are basically insane and delusional by default.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-Vandar Tokare-
"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they supass those of his old master."

Bastila Shan agrees with Vander Tokare that Malak gets more powerful every moment, and on Lehon/Star Forge she speaks of how you are unworthy of the Sith Title, then goes in awe about Malak's power.

The Dark Jedi according to the KotORCG have the belief that the strongest must rule. I will get the quotes if you don't believe me, but the Sith in the Academy including the Wynn and Uthar, as with the ones from Lehon claim Darth Malak>Darth Revan.

Darth Malak says it nearly every conversation you have with him. Go watch a video of his two fights and you will see what I mean. Seemingly, Darth Malak surpasses Darth Revan in some point of KotOR before Leviathan but after Datooine.

That's nice.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah. In KotOR if you are injured, it is shown by holding your shoulder. For example after Revan is tortured by Jorak Uln, he holds his shoulder signifying he is very inured. However that still doesn't stop him from using Drain and then slaying the ex-Headmaster. 😉

That doesn't really prove anything. Revan would still be affected by the torture.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah.
http://web.archive.org/web/20090603071915/https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20031009malak

I have no idea what that is. It looks pretty damn non-canon though. Where exactly is this quote coming from?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's a comparison from Malak, Sidious, and friends to the most powerful Sith Lords. The fact Malak is brought in with Sidious and friends his a comparison of his own power and greatness. 😉

No, it's not. Its saying that several of the most powerful, scary and notorious Sith were human. Just because someone is mentioned in the same breath as someone else doesn't make it a comparison. Malak IS one of the most powerful Sith, But he in no way compares to Sidious.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
According to you, Darth Bandon.

I meant people. Bandon isn't people.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan by this point:
1. Defeated Juhani, Calo Nord, and Bandon.
2. Implied to have beat Bastila in a sparing match.
3. Butchered dozens of Tuskens on Tatooine.
4. Been stated to have an "unlimited potential" and
5. Is more powerful then any student Zhar has ever seen. Note that Kun also went to the Dantooine Enclave.
6. Recovered more then half of his power as Darth Revan.

Yeah, thats why I said he was featless. And shit. So beating him proves **** all.

Exar Kun was trained 50 years before Revan. Who cares what Zhar says?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Which is who you said would get curbed by Malak.

Don't you mean Revan? If so, no I meant that non-Star Forge Malak gets curbed by Revan.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kenobi is better then Zannah in sabers. 😕 I won't debate this with you though, NewGuy is better at it.

I don't really see what your point is here. MY point is that Revan doesn't compare with the truly great swordsmen.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, I left it out.
However, I don't even have the quote anymore since NewGuy ignores me everytime I ask him for it. But he has posted the quote on SWF somewhere.

I'm hearing "Just ignore it Neph, its probably bullshit anyway."

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
undeniably=/=much better then
It confirms Revan is Malak's superior, perhaps by a fair distance, but Revan isn't taking Malak to the curb, which you said he would.

Um, I know? Undeniably way better = much better than though. 😬

Off the Star Forge, yeah he would. It would basically be Dooku vs Ventress. She can put up a bit of a fight for, like, 20 seconds maybe?

I'll reply later. I'm working on a study guide for my Humanities course atm.

NOTE: I won't be able to reply again today, so expect my next response tomorrow afternoon ET.

That's nice.

That doesn't really prove anything. Revan would still be affected by the torture.

I have no idea what that is.

It looks pretty damn non-canon though. Where exactly is this quote coming from?

Just because someone is mentioned in the same breath as someone else doesn't make it a comparison.

But he in no way compares to Sidious.

I meant people. Bandon isn't people.

Yeah, thats why I said he was featless.

Who cares what Zhar says?

Don't you mean Revan? If so, no I meant that non-Star Forge Malak gets curbed by Revan.

MY point is that Revan doesn't compare with the truly great swordsmen.

I'm hearing "Just ignore it Neph, its probably bullshit anyway."

Um, I know? Undeniably way better = much better than though. erm

It would basically be Dooku vs Ventress.

Even though Malak is one of the waeker characters here, I think that team one has a good chance of winning. Revan and malak have years of experience fighting side by side. They know each other's strengths as well as their weaknesses so I'm sure that they can see when their ally is in trouble and can lend a hand. Likewise, Revan and Bastila also have a very good amount of experience with each other and can therefore work in tandem with each other. Meanwhile, everyone one team two are loners and while the help will be aprreciated, they just can't work together as well as team one can. All in all, I think that team one balances out having generally weaker characters with massive amounts of teamwork (and Battle Meditation)

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Sidious was soloing him and his brother, and was planning to take Maul back alive. This means nothing.

Sidious could have killed Maul in the end, but he didn't; this is true. However, Maul lasted during the battle itself, even for a brief moment after Opress was killed and before Maul was disarmed. That means a lot. Sidious' skill in lightsaber combat is enough to prove it without me having to go on.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Play KotOR. The average master is serving Malak or being killed by him.

I guess we have different views on what can be considered an "average" Jedi Master's level, and what Malak's power would be if he wasn't strengthened by the Star Forge. If we take a look at those on Dantooine during KotOR, then Malak could defeat them in a heartbeat. However, when we take a look at all of the Jedi Masters in Star Wars history, the average level of power becomes much higher. I would argue that Malak, without the power he gained from the Star Forge, would have a tough time beating the likes of Kyle Katarn, Atris, or Cin Drallig. I would further argue that the majority of Malak's dark side power came from the Star Forge, and without it, he would never have stood against the likes of Revan as anything kin to a real threat, as witnessed when Revan disarmed Malak and crushed his jaw. But for the time period, I agree. Malak would have bested the majority of masters. I was referring to all of Star Wars history, since the original subject of this thread dealt with an overarching timeline of characters.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He was comparing himself to Revan, his idol and his master. His only friend for a very long time and his era's honorary Space Sun Tzu.

I fail to see how that weakens my argument over how much stronger Revan was, since that was the context in which it was placed.

I thought you quit.

Originally posted by deathslash
All in all, I think that team one balances out having generally weaker characters with massive amounts of teamwork (and Battle Meditation)

Battle Meditation is key in this fight. I'm not sure how quickly Bastila would be able to utilize it. I'm still with team two on this one, but I could see team one coming out on top if Bastila had enough time. Maybe.