Jedi vs X-Men

What does intelligence have to do with will?

Mutants still win though.

The mind rules both. The Jedi barely have minds that can process anything at all. As far as the movies show us, their brains plod them from room to room and swing their swords at other swords, and their minds barely function. They can feel the Force and move some objects, but nothing in the films show us anything resembling intelligence, willpower, logic, or strength. Sometimes we see an emotion or two, but that's not exactly going to stop Xavier.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The mind rules both. The Jedi barely have minds that can process anything at all. As far as the movies show us, their brains plod them from room to room and swing their swords at other swords, and their minds barely function. They can feel the Force and move some objects, but nothing in the films show us anything resembling intelligence, willpower, logic, or strength. Sometimes we see an emotion or two, but that's not exactly going to stop Xavier.

Someone is a little butthurt over the PT. 313

Originally posted by Placidity
He had political control.

And he was referring to his plan of becoming Emperor.

When Carmine Falcone from Batman Begins said he controlled the city, was he really saying he had mind control powers?

I'm sure Sidious has been influencing politicians with the force from the beginning, but he did not control their minds as someone like Xavier would.

After reviewing the scene and context of the movie you are probably right.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Same characters, same universe, same series, same timeline. Whine and cry all you want: you can't that. 🙂

Suck it. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thanks for conceding the point. Xavier is >>>> telepaths that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jedi or Sith.

😄

Originally posted by dadudemon

*Yawns*

Bla bla bla. More posturing. Stop throwing a fit because I thought of a feat that causes what you thought was a good point, to come crashing down. Vader broke through Luke's defenses. Suck it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
hahahahaha

Go ahead and post the quote that shows:

1. The force exists outside the Galaxy that the Star Wars stories take place in.
2. Here's a quote that takes a shit all over your supposed position:

"[The Force] surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

Boom goes the dynamite. haha

You sure you know anything about Star Wars? You seem to be forgetting quite a bit...like the important bits.

First it was Luke's mental defenses failing to Vader's telepathic abilities and now it is you forgetting a very famous quote from Star Wars.

3. Sorry, dude, the force doesn't exist outside of Star Wars. You have got to be shitting me if you think that The Force exists in the Marvel universe. Midichlorians, which mediate the force, simply do not exist in any other universe and, for that matter, any other galaxy.

You do realize this is a, versus thread where in a make-believe universe called ‘Jedi vs X-Men the abilities from both universes exist.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You have just conceded the very foundation of my point. I really don't know why you would continue if you concede this point. 😉

Prove that because they work differently a force user will be affected by a telepath. In the Star Wars universe there are species who are immune to telepathy. Also Yoda is not human. Prove telepathy would work on him.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Luckily, we go by on-screen stuff instead of baseless statements like yours. Sorry, none of the Force Users showed any telepathy on par with anything remotely close to what Xavier did. 🙂

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're asking the wrong questions:

1. Has a Jedi ever encountered a telepath as powerful as Xavier?
2. Do we have evidence that Force Users can overpower eachother's minds with the force?

The answer to 1 is no. Definitely no.

The answer to 2 is yes, definitely yes. I gave you the example of Luke and Vader.

You're approaching this situation/condition from the wrong angle. You cannot approach any debate in the MvF like you're doing. "Oh yeah? Was Harry Potter magic ever shown to work on Iron Man? AHA! I gotchoo! Harry Potter magic won't work on Tony Stark!!!!"

That's herping your derp pretty hard, man. That's not how any vs. matchup works on the internet. To me, it is the type of thing people do in the MvF when they have nothing else and are backed into a corner. You have nothing. Your point has always been baseless. You know that. I know that. Why do you continue to dance?

For how long since we know he couldn’t hold Shaw for long who wasn’t a telepath and was one person? Emma was restrained when he entered her mind. Could he control Yoda who is not human and is the most powerful of the Jedi?
Your assumption:
Xavier telepathy is greater and more powerful than the force.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Aside from the whole "veil of the dark side has fallen" (which means like f*ck all as far as the films tell us), what else did he do besides use incredibly obious ploys to manipulate what had to have been the most easily duped and functionally brain dead people in all of modern fiction?

If Rogue was given the mutant cure and was strapped to Magneto's Statue of Liberty chair, she would still somehow manage to convince all the Jedi to commit ritualistic suicide--they are that incapable of intelligent thought.

Yeah, I am probably wrong in my previous statement. Just more proof as to how bad the script and story for Revenge of The Sith was.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Good for being a powerful Force user. Aside from some telekinesis and sensing emotions, nothing any Force user has done in the films has been indicative of a strong will.

"The Force has a strong influence on the weak minded." Ben said in ANH. It sure does. Yoda, Windu, Kenobi, Anakin, all the Jedi have such weak minds and "wills" that one single Sith Lord was able to pull the most obvious wool over their eyes without so much as giving a shit. The Jedi are nearly brain dead in their retardation. Sidious is the only one in the films who is clearly shown to have even a remotely intact "will". Though considering his greatest mental opposition was an order of monks with the collective mental fortitude of a tangerine, it's not saying much for him.

And as Sidious (the only potential asset the Jedi could use) isn't here, and Xavier is. And Magneto is. And Havok is... the Jedi die. Painfully and with great expedience.

To control the force takes will power or a strong will. This is implied in Yoda's statements:

“A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things.”

[Using the Force, Yoda effortlessly frees the X-Wing from the bog]
Luke: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you fail.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's a good point. I was agreeing with RJ until you made this point.

Yeah...Magneto has some incredible "device" feats with those dang sentinels. That puts him up their with Doctor Manhattan on the ability to assemble complex machines with his metallokinesis.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's a good point. I was agreeing with RJ until you made this point.

Yeah...Magneto has some incredible "device" feats with those dang sentinels. That puts him up their with Doctor Manhattan on the ability to assemble complex machines with his metallokinesis.

👆

He didn't even have direct eye contact with what he was doing either as he was on top of the train. It's as if he can somehow "see" or "sense" through the metal he's manipulating.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
And how long did it take him to "rewire" said sentinels?

When he started the actual rewiring process, he did the first in probably under a minute.

No, I am talking about how long did it take for him to sense them and begin/end the process.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
No, I am talking about how long did it take for him to sense them and begin/end the process.

Not sure what you mean by "sense". He knew they were on the train, so he went after them. Told you, once he started the actual rewiring process, the first Sentinel lite up (letting us know Magneto controlled it now) in what was probably under a minute.

This is a moot point though, Magneto can easily kill a Jedi using the handle to impale, he doesn't need to waste time and ignite the sabre.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure what you mean by "sense". He knew they were on the train, so he went after them. Told you, once he started the actual rewiring process, the first Sentinel lite up (letting us know Magneto controlled it now) in what was probably under a minute.

This is a moot point though, Magneto can easily kill a Jedi using the handle to impale, he doesn't need to waste time and ignite the sabre.

IMO, Magneto would kill them with their own sabres after Xavier freezes them in place. Since he has no qualms about killing people, especially those who would harm a mutant.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Someone is a little butthurt over the PT. 313

Originally posted by Kotor3
To control the force takes will power or a strong will.

Qui-Gon flat out tells Anakin, "Feel, don't think. Use your instincts." As in, don't use your mind, just knee-jerk react to stuff.

Originally posted by Kotor3
This is implied in Yoda's statements:

“A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things.”

A serious mind =/= worthwhile mind.

I'm sure Yoda and Mace and gang were very serious, and very committed. Doesn't mean they have a strong will or anything resembling a powerful mind. Just a powerful flip of the hand--literally, all the effort we see them exert when using the Force involves either repulsive attacks with the hand, offensive pushes or Lightning with the hand, or swinging a saber with the hand. F*ck the mind that Xavier invades, the Jedi are going to wave him in to submission.

Just as Magneto is drilling several lightsaber-sized holes in to those delicious, supple, tenderized minds of theirs'.

EDIT: As a slight aside, we can argue about what constitutes a powerful mind all day, but the fact is... the Star Wars films don't actually show us any examples of mental or pschic domination. Not even from the Sith. There are no acts of one mind targeting another, or one mind defending against another. Just telkinesis, lightsabers, and some occasional Lightning. All cool and shit, but the film Jedi lack any relevant feats that could counter Xavier. Nevermind whether those feats of theirs' are strong enough, they just plum don't happen.

Originally posted by Robtard
IMO, Magneto would kill them with their own sabres after Xavier freezes them in place. Since he has no qualms about killing people, especially those who would harm a mutant.

Originally posted by RJ 2.0
Quote when Xavier freezed a large group of individuals that were not just a bunch of humans. I can't recall him freezing multiple mutants at once.

Why is freezing mutants any different from a normal humans, unless they had mental resistance?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Dude make up your own thread if you want to use feats from bald Xavier.

Your reading comprehension is becoming worrisome. This was in no way a concession of your point.

LOL. Your posts are killing me. How old are you? My comment is not a fit at all it instead it shows how irreverent and inaccurate your point comparison is.

When did I say that the force existed outside of the Star Wars Universe and in the Marvel Universe?

You do realize this is a, versus thread where in a make-believe universe called ‘Jedi vs X-Men the abilities from both universes exist.

Ok. Let me explain that every time I say you have a point it is not a concession for the overall discussion.

Prove that because they work differently a force user will be affected by a telepath. In the Star Wars universe there are species who are immune to telepathy. Also Yoda is not human. Prove telepathy would work on him.

I guess you would be referring to Bald Xavier. Right cause the Jedi would have had problems controlling Shaw. Shaw who Xavier stated he couldn’t hold long and needed concentration to do.

Since you do not like to answer questions let me answer yours. No we have not seen the Jedi encounter a telepath like Xavier in the movies. Let say Xavier mind control can work on the Human Jedi.

For how long since we know he couldn’t hold Shaw for long who wasn’t a telepath and was one person? Emma was restrained when he entered her mind. Could he control Yoda who is not human and is the most powerful of the Jedi?

Every last point you make in this post has already been countered. If you want to see my rebuttals to you points, simply find the corresponding rebuttals in my posts. You are not smart enough nor good enough to deserve me quoting my posts at you. You need to level up, several times, before I will give you more attention. Get better on this thing called debate. Then get back to me. Perhaps you'll learn how to not concede major points and then whine when it's pointed out that you've conceded them? Perhaps you'll learn when you're wrong and directly admit that? There is nothing at all you can do about the following: Xavier freezes all the Jedi. The Jedi have no defense, at all, against Xavier's brand of telepathy. No, the force does not exist in the Marvel Universe. It is not in "all living things"*, as you falsely state especially in vs. threads where other characters come from different universes. I'm sure that made sense in your mind but it is hilariously dumb.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Xavier telepathy is greater and more powerful than the force.

This is one of the smarter things you've stated. However, that's a malformed thought. Xavier's telepathy is NOT greater than The Force.

Lemme explain.

It's simply different.

What you're saying is 100kg is greater than blue. That's nonsensical. It's dumb as shit.

I hope that sinks in. Maybe you'll finally see the light. 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The first part proves nothing, the second part is irrelevant here. A serious mind... for what, exactly? I mean, exactly? Being a Jedi and commanding the Force aren't the same thing. And Luke was using the Force before he met Yoda and this advice. Either having a "serious mind" is only important to meet Yoda's standard of what a "Jedi" is, or you can't use the Force unless you're... "serious"...? lulwut?

A serious mind =/= worthwhile mind.

I'm sure Yoda and Mace and gang were very serious, and very committed. Doesn't mean they have a strong will or anything resembling a powerful mind. Just a powerful flip of the hand--literally, all the effort we see them exert when using the Force involves either repulsive attacks with the hand, offensive pushes or Lightning with the hand, or swinging a saber with the hand. F*ck the mind that Xavier invades, the Jedi are going to wave him in to submission.

Just as Magneto is drilling several lightsaber-sized holes in to those delicious, supple, tenderized minds of theirs'.

EDIT: As a slight aside, we can argue about what constitutes a powerful mind all day, but the fact is... the Star Wars films don't actually show us any examples of mental or pschic domination. Not even from the Sith. There are no acts of one mind targeting another, or one mind defending against another. Just telkinesis, lightsabers, and some occasional Lightning. All cool and shit, but the film Jedi lack any relevant feats that could counter Xavier. Nevermind whether those feats of theirs' are strong enough, they just plum don't happen.

Synonyms
continence, restraint, self-command, self-containment, self-control, self-discipline, self-government, self-mastery, self-possession, self-restraint, will

Definitions for serious-minded:
• Characterized by seriousness of intention, purpose, thought, etc.; earnest.
• Acting with or showing thought and good sense; "a sensible young man" [syn: thoughtful]

Being a Jedi has to do with the way you use the force does it not? As does being a Sith? To master the force as a Jedi and Sith does not take willpower? I totally disagree. Yes any force sensitive can use the force does not mean that can master it.

Yoda comments were for Luke so he would not turn to the darkside. Which as we know takes willpower since it is the easy path to power. Which Luke would need to defeat Vader. Willpower, something Luke use to resist the dark-side and not kill his father.

Yoda told Luke he did not believe (or have faith) which builds up ‘will’ which produces ‘Willpower’.