Originally posted by operator616You don't get to define most powerful. Michael in direct comparison is far more powerful. He has the power to defeat the combined might of the angels with a gesture. Lucifer on his own never has displayed that level of power. Yes, because due to Lucifer's will which was given to him he's the only being outside of his influence. He allowed lucifer to do so and it fascinates him but it's all natural inborn traits so he didn't work for any of them.
The whole series revolves around the fact that Lucifer seeks to become independent from God, and achieves it in the end. Yahweh even wanted to merge with Lucifer to share experiences.I posted on panel proof which outright states that Lucifer is God's most powerful creation.
That should clear things up for you.
Michael represents the power and lucifer represents the will. Don't get this confused anymore. It's rather troubling.
Originally posted by operator616
Why would his function diminish his power in any way?What? Show me one single hint that Michael is superior to Lucifer. They are regarded as equals most of the times, and if anything, Lucifer has the edge. Mike Carey himself said that Lucifer is second only to God in a letter's page.
http://i.imgur.com/0xHvWmQ.jpg?1
And the Sandman series outright mentions that Lucifer is the most powerful of all angels.
Originally posted by zopzop
[b]Reed was still human when the Alien Entity exploded as the Big Bang.Rick was there. At ground zero during the Big Bang.
Rick ended up back in the re-created Microverse once it was over.
Strange and Mordo were both there, and both witnessed Sise-Neg the Big Bang.
Strange and Mordo even rode the Big Bang to their point in history as the Big Bang created.
Okay, but WHAT was the explanation as to why? Why did Reed survive? Unless this was some magical harmless big bang. Since right now it just sounds like utterly horrible writing.
Or Reed Richards has durability that puts Juggernaut and PC Superman to shame.
The difference is, though, that Lucifer has a variety of impressive feats putting him on a cosmic level. Reed doesn't..nor does anyone else save for maybe Dr. Strange. It makes no sense for Reed to be able to do that, given his power levels...it cheapens the feat and makes it hard to take seriously.
So either you feel the feats are legit and Reed just magically jumped leaps and bounds in the durability department..or you know they are bunk. If you know they are bunk then they really do not suddenly make all the legit showings of people surviving this type of stuff less impressive.
Since really, we could use these for anything it doesn't just apply to the Lucifer feat: Superman vs Reed Richards. Supes loses because Reed can tank a big bang. Reed vs Silver Surfer, Reed wins. Reed vs Thanos, casually laughs off everything Thanos throws at him.
Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, but WHAT was the explanation as to why? Why did Reed survive? Unless this was some magical harmless big bang. Since right now it just sounds like utterly horrible writing.Or Reed Richards has durability that puts Juggernaut and PC Superman to shame.
The difference is, though, that Lucifer has a variety of impressive feats putting him on a cosmic level. Reed doesn't..nor does anyone else save for maybe Dr. Strange. It makes no sense for Reed to be able to do that, given his power levels...it cheapens the feat and makes it hard to take seriously.
So either you feel the feats are legit and Reed just magically jumped leaps and bounds in the durability department..or you know they are bunk. If you know they are bunk then they really do not suddenly make all the legit showings of people surviving this type of stuff less impressive.
Originally posted by zopzop
Because using "He survived a Big Bang point blank!" is a meaningless feat. Look how many times it's been done.
You are getting too hung up on the "big bang" part. In essence, Lucifer survived a massively large explosion, cosmically large.
So then this should make any feat where anyone survives an explosion meaningless because..because Marvel is stupid and doesn't know the true damage a Big Bang would do.
So..if character X can survive a nuke, so? Reed Richards tanks big bangs. Character Y laughed off a planet buster, so? Reed Richards tanks big bangs.
Are you ready to apply this logic all across the board? Every durability feat in Marvel is now meaningless because Reed tanked a big bang.
Originally posted by Surtur
You are getting too hung up on the "big bang" part. In essence, Lucifer survived a massively large explosion, cosmically large.So then this should make any feat where anyone survives an explosion meaningless because..because Marvel is stupid and doesn't know the true damage a Big Bang would do.
So..if character X can survive a nuke, so? Reed Richards tanks big bangs. Character Y laughed off a planet buster, so? Reed Richards tanks big bangs.
Are you ready to apply this logic all across the board? Every durability feat in Marvel is now meaningless because Reed tanked a big bang.
The whole point of this thread was "Rank Lucifer and Michael in Marvel Cosmoloy" well in MARVEL COSMOLOGY surviving a Big Bang is no big deal so using that feat for Lucifer IN MARVEL COSMOLOGY is meaningless. Next.
Uh the problem is from the way you word it..it seems like they all tanked the same big bang, not separate ones.
It just comes off like this big bang event was a fluke as opposed to proving..anything you say.
Can Reed Richards tank a galaxy busting shot, yes or no? If you say no it means you feel the feat is bunk, and if it is bunk it has no relevancy here.
Since there are billions of galaxies in a single universe, so if he can tank the big bang then a galaxy buster shouldn't even get his attention.
EDIT: Of course this is moot, because you realize Lucifer still has shit like "was 1 half of a duo that created the multiverse". So even if you wanted to say the feat doesn't show anything, it's not like the entire argument hinged on that.
Also didn't Lucifer make one girl God of everything but hedgehogs, and then another girl god of hedgehogs?
Originally posted by CortSether
Can't we all agree that Lucifer and Michael ain't s***?
No, because people who "ain't shit" tend to not destroy entire dimensions via their sheer presence. They also tend to not be part of a 2 man team that shaped the multi-verse.
In other words, if they "ain't shit" then pretty much every Marvel cosmic "ain't shit". Which is totally unfortunate, I always thought Galactus was shit, but apparently by your logic he aint shit. Damn 🙁
But you are saying they are overrated because Marvel is so utterly retarded they wrote a bunch of people surviving an event they couldn't of possibly truly survived on their own power.
That just makes Marvel look shitty and like their writers don't know what they are doing..and yet here you are bashing Vertigo.
Originally posted by Surtur
But you are saying they are overrated because Marvel is so utterly retarded they wrote a bunch of people surviving an event they couldn't of possibly truly survived on their own power.That just makes Marvel look shitty and like their writers don't know what they are doing..and yet here you are bashing Vertigo.
Let it go and move on. Next.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why don't you post the next page where "the big bang" lefts a small crater and some shattered Windows in the adjacent houses?
I mean what are you doing?
Originally posted by zopzop
And this didn't even wreck the sofa :
A billion dimension slagging blast.Don't judge an attack based on collateral damage. We've been through this before. [/B]
Originally posted by abhilegend
So, what exactly are you trying to say here? That a blast which created an actual multiverse is not impressive because you're too stubborn to acknowledge it?
It started off with Big Bangs and ended here. Move along.
