Rank Lucifer and Michael In Marvel Cosmology

Originally posted by operator616
No it isn't because:

a) Gabriel is an archangel and was clearly meant to be on the same level as Lucifer and Michael.
b) ....Ok? Excalbiur is a sword and yet it's also a multiversal weapon. I mean, come on, even you can't be stupid enough to claim that it was a regular sword.

I don't have to have scans. Because the existence of the Vertigo verse is enough proof of that. Yahweh assigned the roles at the dawn of time: Michael releases the energy, Lucifer makes the energy take form creating reality, and Gabriel preserves them. It's also confirmed in a bio. It's an established fact that the Vertigo multiverse is a creation of the archangels. Something you seemed to have ignored in my previous post because you can't counter it, and we both know that it completely shits on your "Lucifer created a universe" crap. Ive said it before a dozen times and ill say it again: whether Lucifer created a universe or a multiverse in issue #13 is irrelevant since he along with his brothers were responsible for the original creation as well. The mainstream Vertigo reality - an established multiverse.

Also Lucifer only created a universe with Michael's power. That's hardly impressive seeing as how Reed used AE's power to create the MU. Reed = Lucifer?

good lord zop....your hate of vertigo needs to stop. we have a direct comparison between skyfathers (odin and a bunch of others) and morpheus in the sandman series. odin and all the skyfathers are WAYYY below the endless. the endless exist simultaneously in universes across the multiverse--that includes the vertigo multiverse (which i've shown you before...) and the dc proper universe. and they are below lucifer. after all these years you still haven't read the books, so i don't see why you feel the need to continually bash/hate/lowball the characters. it is tiresome bro....

Originally posted by leonidas
good lord zop....your hate of vertigo needs to stop. we have a direct comparison between skyfathers (odin and a bunch of others) and morpheus in the sandman series. odin and all the skyfathers are WAYYY below the endless. the endless exist simultaneously in universes across the multiverse--that includes the vertigo multiverse (which i've shown you before...) and the dc proper universe. and they are below lucifer. after all these years you still haven't read the books, so i don't see why you feel the need to continually bash/hate/lowball the characters. it is tiresome bro....

You are attacking him, but I think you are missing his point. He is simply saying that the on panel feats don't equal his billing in the cosmic hierarchy. Now, I don't know if that is true or not because I don't give a shit about D.C. and their universes, but I can understand the premise of what he is saying. Insane Genius Vell recreated the universe along with Entropy and he is hardly divine.

Originally posted by leonidas
good lord zop....your hate of vertigo needs to stop. we have a direct comparison between skyfathers (odin and a bunch of others) and morpheus in the sandman series. odin and all the skyfathers are WAYYY below the endless. the endless exist simultaneously in universes across the multiverse--that includes the vertigo multiverse (which i've shown you before...) and the dc proper universe. and they are below lucifer. after all these years you still haven't read the books, so i don't see why you feel the need to continually bash/hate/lowball the characters. it is tiresome bro....

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You are attacking him, but I think you are missing his point. He is simply saying that the on panel feats don't equal his billing in the cosmic hierarchy. Now, I don't know if that is true or not because I don't give a shit about D.C. and their universes, but I can understand the premise of what he is saying. Insane Genius Vell recreated the universe along with Entropy and he is hardly divine.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You are attacking him, but I think you are missing his point. He is simply saying that the on panel feats don't equal his billing in the cosmic hierarchy. Now, I don't know if that is true or not because I don't give a shit about D.C. and their universes, but I can understand the premise of what he is saying. Insane Genius Vell recreated the universe along with Entropy and he is hardly divine.

i would 'attack' anyone who refuses to actually READ the material required to debate it fairly and knowledgeably. hence, he HAS no point. the fact that you can 'understand' his baseless and utterly invalid point, is only proof that he shouldn't be spouting off because, obviously, it leads others toward the completely wrong 'understanding'. to get the endless and where they fit into the grand scheme, requires reading the series. same with lucifer. if you haven't read it, you shouldn't be talking about it let alone be pretending that you know WHAT you're talking about.

Well after reading all of this,i see how overrated are Michael and Lucifer.
But i would rank them Elder God - tiers.

Originally posted by zopzop
I don't hate them. I just think they are highly overrated.

You don't even need the Insane Genis-vell example. Reed did what Lucifer did (use another being's power to make a reality), is Reed an abstract?

Lucifer using Michael's power to make reality is not the same as the Reed AE thing.

Michael/Lucifer were in the void outside of creation when that happened, the void being an infinite empty space where time/space don't really exist.

Michael's explosion creates the time/space/energy of creation, and Lucifer directly shapes all that power into a multiverse. Reed telling the Alien Entity what to do with his knowledge is not at all comparable.

Also in regards to Gabriel, sure he doesn't have many feats but that's not at all the nature of Vertigo. But he's featured in Hellblazer and during his few appearances in that it's clear that he could easily beat The First of The Fallen and is pretty much unassailable other than through trickery.

The thing with the Vertigo angels (and the Endless) is a) loads of rules that limit their actions but b) literal as the plot demands powers. But also the fact is the Vertigo comics were never going to include powerful entities punching each other and stuff like the mainstream Marvel/DC comics do.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Lucifer using Michael's power to make reality is not the same as the Reed AE thing.

Michael/Lucifer were in the void outside of creation when that happened, the void being an infinite empty space where time/space don't really exist.

Michael's explosion creates the time/space/energy of creation, and Lucifer directly shapes all that power into a multiverse. Reed telling the Alien Entity what to do with his knowledge is not at all comparable.

It wasn't Reed's power that created the MU just like it wasn't Lucifer's power that created his universe. Thank AE and Michael for that.

Originally posted by zopzop
You're missing my point. Lucifer created NOTHING without Michael's power. In the same way Reed guided the AE to make sure that the newly created universe was made correctly.

It wasn't Reed's power that created the MU just like it wasn't Lucifer's power that created his universe. Thank AE and Michael for that.

Lucifer tanked a multiversal big bang and directly shaped it into everything that existed. Sure Michael's power was needed to make a canvas for LUcifer to paint on but that's because nothing in Vertigo other than Yahweh and Michael with the Demiurgic power could make time and space.

Reed guided the Alien Entity, Lucifer controlled matter, energy, time and space. on a multiversal scale.

One of those is an abstract level feat and the other is someone being really smart.

My point is just that you comparing Reed and Lucifer's feats there is pointless other than to try and low ball Lucifer's feat.

Originally posted by leonidas
i would 'attack' anyone who refuses to actually READ the material required to debate it fairly and knowledgeably. hence, he HAS no point. the fact that you can 'understand' his baseless and utterly invalid point, is only proof that he shouldn't be spouting off because, obviously, it leads others toward the completely wrong 'understanding'. to get the endless and where they fit into the grand scheme, requires reading the series. same with lucifer. if you haven't read it, you shouldn't be talking about it let alone be pretending that you know WHAT you're talking about.

👆

Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Well after reading all of this,i see how overrated are Michael and Lucifer.
But i would rank them Elder God - tiers.

😆

when you grow up, read the books. by then i hope you'll be old enough to decide for yourself. 👆

Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Well after reading all of this,i see how overrated are Michael and Lucifer.
But i would rank them Elder God - tiers.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Lucifer tanked a multiversal big bang

Dr Strange and Mordo also tanked the Big Bang when Genesis blew up in their faces.

Rick Jones tanked the Big Bang when Entropy blew up in his face.

Warlock tanked the Big Bang when Thanos/HOTI blew up in his face.

Reed tanked the Big Bang when AE blew up in his face.

There's probably more I'm missing.

They were literally at 'ground zero' and yet they survived just fine. They all abstract level?

Unless of course, the characters at ground zero were not meant to be hurt by said Big Bang. That, makes more sense.

Butthurt people,nothin new.

Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Butthurt people,nothin new.

The first person that says butthurt, is the person who is actually butthurt👆

I am not going to feed trolls.
So ignoring you.

Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
I am not going to feed trolls.
So ignoring you.

Yes, I'm trolling, you didn't even read the comics 😆

How can you say i didn't read them,if you know nothing about me?Stupid logic.

Your placing them at elder God level. Clearly that's either low balling on purpose or you have no clue cause you didn't read it.

Elder Gods = Universal.
Michael = Universal.
Lucifer = Universal.
It is logical/