One Solution to America's Black Crime problem.

The solution? A black male minister went around the neigbhorhoods talking to all of the young men (many of them part of gangs).

An architect of the "Boston miracle," Rev. Jeffrey Brown started out as a bewildered young pastor watching his Boston neighborhood fall apart around him, as drugs and gang violence took hold of the kids on the streets. The first step to recovery: Listen to those kids, don't just preach to them, and help them reduce violence in their own neighborhoods. It's a powerful talk about listening to make change.

This reduction in black homicides, in Boston, is considered the "Boston Miracle."

Boston youth violence was dropped by 79%.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jeffrey_brown_how_we_cut_youth_violence_in_boston_by_79_percent?language=en

My take:

Many of you know that I think the US has a black culture issue with violent crime. I don't think it is a race issue, it is a cultural issue (and I cited my sources that showed that African immigrants were clearly far less violent/committed far less crimes). I am always looking for ways we can tackle this black crime issue in America. When you have a country where the majority of homicides are black on black murders (while only comprising about 12% of the population), you clearly have a problem. A severe problem. And it is obviously rooted somewhere in racism.

I know many social liberals shy away from talking about how the black community has education, poverty, and crime issues. It is just not politically correct to point out that black people have several problems. But I think that attitude, in and of itself, is racist. You can't pretend that there aren't racial issues in the US and hope they go away.

So this solution this pastor came up with tells me that there is a real way (among many) to help with the violence in the black community.

What are your thoughts on this?

So just to be clear you just said the reason blacks murder so many other blacks is rooted in racism. Are white people taking control of their minds and forcing them to kill? That is the only way racism is to blame. Or did you mean the blacks are being racist against other blacks?

only one solution...

Edit: Damn it KMC! Can't post images with censored words in the links?

You also hit the nail on the head about political correctness. Being PC is counterproductive if you actually ignore things in favor of it. If a community has several legit problems caused by the community then whether they are black or white or purple or Kryptonian..those problems need to be pointed out.

It is better to get your feelings hurt over the truth then to deny yourself a much needed reality check. Remember that whole "check your privilege" stuff people say? Now we have "check your reality".

I'm pretty hyper right now, Christmas vicodin and I already got family members showing up at my house.

But anyways, police brutality is a problem, but it's not the only problem or the biggest problem. Either we learn to multi-task orrr we focus on the biggest issues(which again are not cops).

Originally posted by Emperordmb
only one solution...

Edit: Damn it KMC! Can't post images with censored words in the links?

Originally posted by Surtur
You also hit the nail on the head about political correctness. Being PC is counterproductive if you actually ignore things in favor of it. If a community has several legit problems caused by the community then whether they are black or white or purple or Kryptonian..those problems need to be pointed out.

It is better to get your feelings hurt over the truth then to deny yourself a much needed reality check. Remember that whole "check your privilege" stuff people say? Now we have "check your reality".

I'm pretty hyper right now, Christmas vicodin and I already got family members showing up at my house.

But anyways, police brutality is a problem, but it's not the only problem or the biggest problem. Either we learn to multi-task orrr we focus on the biggest issues(which again are not cops).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Resave the image under a name that doesn't contain the word.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Don't kid yourself, police brutality is a massive problem, and one easier solved than black crime, so that should be the priority.

It's a problem, but not the biggest problem. The priority should be the biggest problem. We can indeed fight against more then just police brutality. We can try to combat the countless murders done by gang bangers, the lack of a family structure in these neighborhoods. But if we are going to ignore the whole possibility of multi-tasking then the biggest issue needs focus.

You also don't kinda maybe sorta think perhaps the two issues might be a bit connected? That cutting down on all this gang violence and stuff might lessen police brutality? Might cause cops to be less trigger happy in these neighborhoods disguised as demilitarized zones?

Personally I am of the "multi-task" mindset, since why wouldn't we multi-task? It's not cops out there killing innocent people in drive by's day in and day out.

I think the fact that police brutality is an abuse of power does at more weight to it as a problem.

Oh it sure adds more weight, definitely true. But the weight of all those dead bodies at the hands of gang bangers adds weight to the problem as well. You know all the dead little kids and innocent people? I am talking truly innocent people too, not the ones we usually see killed by cops who are far from innocent.

I could be bias since I live in Chicago and see gang bangers killing folk every day on the news. It's not called Chiraq due to the cops. Oh we'll sometimes get protests. But the protests over the dead blacks usually aren't ones that disrupt the businesses people are running or disrupt the daily lives of people in the city. Those kind of protests are saved for white on black crime.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's a problem, but not the biggest problem. The priority should be the biggest problem. We can indeed fight against more then just police brutality. We can try to combat the countless murders done by gang bangers, the lack of a family structure in these neighborhoods. But if we are going to ignore the whole possibility of multi-tasking then the biggest issue needs focus.

You also don't kinda maybe sorta think perhaps the two issues might be a bit connected? That cutting down on all this gang violence and stuff might lessen police brutality? Might cause cops to be less trigger happy in these neighborhoods disguised as demilitarized zones?

Personally I am of the "multi-task" mindset, since why wouldn't we multi-task? It's not cops out there killing innocent people in drive by's day in and day out.

The thing is, one of the better ways to reduce gang violence I can think of... is get people to trust cops. Which requires trustworthy cops.

And while cops aren't killing constantly, they do distrust the black populace constantly, and kill often enough to convince people to not turn to them to help.

Cops being a problem is a double-layer problem, because police are supposed to be the tool to fix other problems, and them being bad makes other problems worse.

How about people stop acting stupid and how about cops stop killing them?

Problem solved.

Originally posted by Q99
The thing is, one of the better ways to reduce gang violence I can think of... is get people to trust cops. Which requires trustworthy cops.

But 95% of cops are trustworthy though, most don't do this shit. Is that statement I just made true or false to you?

If it is a false statement to you then correct me and put in the true percentage you feel feel accurately reflects the situation.

And while cops aren't killing constantly, they do distrust the black populace constantly, and kill often enough to convince people to not turn to them to help.

Would you care to guess why a cop would distrust these communities? Just off the top of your head what reason comes to mind? If you were about to say "racism" let me stop you right there because it's not only white cops committing acts of brutality against people.

Since cops are people too, they are not the army. They can feel the same doubts about a community that a community feels about the cops and it is no less valid. Especially now where every single decision a cop makes is looked at through a lens of "how can we make this out to be potentially racist?"

People want to act like the cops are the only ones who need to change and their excuse is "oh they have power and authority" but if they have so much damn power and authority then taking that away is NOT going to be necessarily easier then reducing gang violence or solving the other issues. It can't be both, either it's easier to stop the cops then the thugs OR they are the higher priority because they have so much power, but then that just means it won't be easy.

Cops being a problem is a double-layer problem, because police are supposed to be the tool to fix other problems, and them being bad makes other problems worse.

So then we should work to fix the cops AND the shitty neighborhoods. Why can't we multi-task? It just always seems the solution falls somewhere in the realm of "don't focus on the myriad of serious issues in the community caused by the community, just focus on cops". Yes crime can be fought by trusting the cops, it can also be fought by the neighborhoods getting half as upset over those things as they do over people killed by cops.

Why would we not attempt to solve these issues in every manner possible?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
How about people stop acting stupid and how about cops stop killing them?

Problem solved.

You can't use this logic though apparently. You see it's on the cops to solve the crime and the criminals are..just doing their jobs by being criminals. So you can't ask people to not be dipshits and actually obey the law and you can't ask them to obey what the cops say if they happen to break the law.

The cops need to change but the criminals do not. You also can't turn to the community to help, it's solely the job of the cops since it's not like the communities ever protect criminals and they always cooperate with cops and if they don't cooperate it is only ever because of evil cops and not any other reasons. Cops tend to not have to rely on witnesses from said communities when it comes to solving certain crimes(especially murders).

We also KNOW that witnesses to these crimes will never ever flat out lie to cops about what they saw so all in all it's easy to be a cop and the people of the communities do help them out and like I said if they ever do not help it is only because of corrupt evil cops having lost the trust of the honest citizens. Likewise if a witness does ever lie that is also somehow linked to police brutality.

Originally posted by Surtur
You can't use this logic though apparently. You see it's on the cops to solve the crime and the criminals are..just doing their jobs by being criminals. So you can't ask people to not be dipshits and actually obey the law and you can't ask them to obey what the cops say if they happen to break the law.

You can ask criminals, but we know criminals won't answer, because they're criminals and do not view themselves as answerable to anyone.

You can ask cops, and cops should answer, because they're public servants. Or supposed to be.

The cops need to change but the criminals do not. You also can't turn to the community to help, it's solely the job of the cops since it's not like the communities ever protect criminals and they always cooperate with cops and if they don't cooperate it is only ever because of evil cops and not any other reasons. Cops tend to not have to rely on witnesses from said communities when it comes to solving certain crimes(especially murders).

Note that the cops giving the communities very good reason to not trust them. Namely, they treat the community as enemies / potential threats and not people to communicate with and build relationships with.

Good policing is going to communities, building relationships, and trust.

You can ask the communities to trust the cops when the cops abuse their power against them and when the cops are not trying very hard to build trust, it's just not very tempting when the police don't care (it's not that they're evil, it's that they are not trying to build community relationships). Once bitten, twice shy and all that. When there's tons of evidence that people are being treated unequally on a large and very statistically noticeable scale, "Hey you, people being treated poorly! Pretend you're not being ill-treated, and then maybe we'll get around to not ill-treating you!" is not one of the better sales pitches.

The reason to approach this from the cop end is because that's the end that can be changed, and more likely to work, and the end that needs it the most. Asking civilians to change before the people hired to keep order will admit they need to do their job seems to me to put the onus a bit much on the people who need help.

It's backwards, putting the responsibility of good policing on the citizenry being policed, and not the people who's job it is to do so.

Heck, if it could work that way, why would we need police to begin with? "Hey all you criminals! Just stop being criminals!". The very need for cops kinda puts lie that this would be a successful approach- while on the flip side, some police departments do clean up their act, do good jobs, have good community relationships two-way, and so on.

We know police can do so. We know it is their responsibility to do so. So why are we trying to shift the burden onto literally those the police are supposed to protect?

Keep in mind also, that it's become steadily safer for police for decades. Rate of police deaths has dropped even as we have a steady stream of shot-by-police incidents and abuse of power. It's not like this is in response to a threat to the police, this is often how it's always been in those locations (the Baltimore case of a suspect dying in the back of a police transport is a case where there's a decades old name for the practice the locals *and police* use).

Yet you stick up for criminals all the time and blame the police.

Originally posted by Surtur
But 95% of cops are trustworthy though, most don't do this shit. Is that statement I just made true or false to you?

If it is a false statement to you then correct me and put in the true percentage you feel feel accurately reflects the situation.

False, problems across entire major city precincts are well recorded.

Baltimore, LAPD, St. Louis PD. What exactly does one do when dealing with organizations that have a history of, as a whole, treating some people worse?

Plus, it's not even just the cops, the courts are more likely to rule against black people in many cases than they are whites who commit the exact same crimes. If you see 10 white and 10 black people pulled off the street for the same crime by cops who treat them fairly, and 2 white people goes to jail and 4 black people, what conclusion do you draw?

So then we should work to fix the cops AND the shitty neighborhoods. Why can't we multi-task?

We totally should.

Now, let's see, what's the best way to fix a shitty neighborhood? Ah, that's right, 'put a lot of non-corrupt police who talk with the locals and earn their trust.'

What non-police solutions do you have here? You can't just wave a magic wand and fix things, and saying 'hey you, fix this problem!' to the people complaining about the problem and who are asking for help is profoundly unhelpful.

Who is doing the fixing of the shitty neighborhoods? Who is asking them to fix them? With what resources are they supposed to be fixed up? The people who live in shitty neighborhoods don't exactly have a lot of extra resources to fix their neighborhoods.

It just always seems the solution falls somewhere in the realm of "don't focus on the myriad of serious issues in the community caused by the community, just focus on cops". Yes crime can be fought by trusting the cops, it can also be fought by the neighborhoods getting half as upset over those things as they do over people killed by cops.

The neighborhoods getting half as upset about those things? Well, how do the neighborhoods fight gangs without cops? One of the most traditional answers is 'form other gangs.' That, obviously, has it's own problems. I mean, they can't arrest anyone. Driving them out is quite dangerous and is effectively 'form other gangs.' So... what do?

Right there, you're just asking the populaces to effectively provide police themselves, but without the training, equipment, legal authority, or resources of cops. And where they're likely to be beaten or shot for trying because, hey, gangs, and while gangs may hesitate to take on the police *and* are outmatched by police, they don't have either of those issues vs unorganized civilians.

Do you, what, organize them and form them into a militia? With with resources and free time? Vigilantes? That is itself illegal and would get those who tried arrested (and rightly so). Etc..

You want the problem to be fixed from both ends. Ok, let's go with that. Propose a solution that people with little excess resources or outside help can do.

Insisting they do it themselves sounds nice, until you start unpacking that and asking exactly via what method is it supposed to happen.

You have a very simple request that does not have a simple solution, since you're disallowing the most effective solution provided by the people who's job it literally is to provide said solutions.

Also, while we're on the subject, "Why do we have to have fraud investigators? Can't companies and people being defrauded solve their own problems? We can't put all the burden on the investigators, the problem has to be taken from both ends."

Apply this line of thought to anything criminal- and it applies pretty well to any area where crime is a thing- and think about how absurd people would treat it. It's kinda a sign how messed up the situation is that "asking police to do their job instead of insisting that civilians do it for them," is somehow being treated as unreasonable.

But nobody insists the people do the cops jobs. I insist they get half as upset over the piece of shit thugs as they do against the cops. I would ask they protest the multitude of crimes committed by their own as much as they do the cops. But they won't and we will get excuses like the ones you give "the ones we are complaining about having so much power will be easy to get rid of so we need to focus on that".

I wish there would be a teeny tiny ounce of accountability on the non cop side.

I'm not against attacking this from both sides. Why are some people against it?

You seem to think that non-corrupt cops automatically cleanses a shitty neighborhood. That's such a naive thought I don't even know what to say.

Also just ball park it: percentage of cops who are decent?

Also tell me at WHAT point do we turn our attention to these shithole communities and the people within who turn them into shit?

Let's say you go to a shitty neighborhood and find every single cop is not corrupt. Your next step to fix such a place is what? When do we turn to the main cause of problems, which is not police?

If people gave gangs the same treatment they do to the cops, the people would die.

Originally posted by Q99
False, problems across entire major city precincts are well recorded.

Baltimore, LAPD, St. Louis PD. What exactly does one do when dealing with organizations that have a history of, as a whole, treating some people worse?

Plus, it's not even just the cops, the courts are more likely to rule against black people in many cases than they are whites who commit the exact same crimes. If you see 10 white and 10 black people pulled off the street for the same crime by cops who treat them fairly, and 2 white people goes to jail and 4 black people, what conclusion do you draw?

We totally should.

Now, let's see, what's the best way to fix a shitty neighborhood? Ah, that's right, 'put a lot of non-corrupt police who talk with the locals and earn their trust.'

What non-police solutions do you have here? You can't just wave a magic wand and fix things, and saying 'hey you, fix this problem!' to the people complaining about the problem and who are asking for help is profoundly unhelpful.

Who is doing the fixing of the shitty neighborhoods? Who is asking them to fix them? With what resources are they supposed to be fixed up? The people who live in shitty neighborhoods don't exactly have a lot of extra resources to fix their neighborhoods.

The neighborhoods getting half as upset about those things? Well, how do the neighborhoods fight gangs without cops? One of the most traditional answers is 'form other gangs.' That, obviously, has it's own problems. I mean, they can't arrest anyone. Driving them out is quite dangerous and is effectively 'form other gangs.' So... what do?

Right there, you're just asking the populaces to effectively provide police themselves, but without the training, equipment, legal authority, or resources of cops. And where they're likely to be beaten or shot for trying because, hey, gangs, and while gangs may hesitate to take on the police *and* are outmatched by police, they don't have either of those issues vs unorganized civilians.

Do you, what, organize them and form them into a militia? With with resources and free time? Vigilantes? That is itself illegal and would get those who tried arrested (and rightly so). Etc..

You want the problem to be fixed from both ends. Ok, let's go with that. Propose a solution that people with little excess resources or outside help can do.

Insisting they do it themselves sounds nice, until you start unpacking that and asking exactly via what method is it supposed to happen.

You have a very simple request that does not have a simple solution, since you're disallowing the most effective solution provided by the people who's job it literally is to provide said solutions.

Also, while we're on the subject, "Why do we have to have fraud investigators? Can't companies and people being defrauded solve their own problems? We can't put all the burden on the investigators, the problem has to be taken from both ends."

Apply this line of thought to anything criminal- and it applies pretty well to any area where crime is a thing- and think about how absurd people would treat it. It's kinda a sign how messed up the situation is that "asking police to do their job instead of insisting that civilians do it for them," is somehow being treated as unreasonable.