One Solution to America's Black Crime problem.

Started by Time-Immemorial7 pages

It's good to see you DDM. You need to come around more my friend.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Who made you God to correct others? Who made your argument infallible? You yourself are not perfect and neither is your opinion based on bias statistics.
I'm not perfect you are correct. I am not infallible you are correct.

But it's hard to argue with the raw data simply because you don't like it. Black vs White sentencing discrepancies are a thing.

I disagree. Until you prove it otherwise with actual facts.

12 jurors 99.9% of the time always rule correctly.

Until you can disprove jurys are corrupt then you will always be false.

I've seen some comments about tackling "poverty and education" to stop the black crime issues in America.

I, at the very least, partially disagree with that. Latin Americans are poorer and less educated than black Americans. Yet they commit less crimes than even white people.

As fact, there are literally HUNDREDS of millions of people in the world less educated and poorer than black Americans. Yet they are far less violent.

Tackling black issues in America has to come from multiple angles. It can't just be white people giving them money to go to school and improve the neighborhoods. It can't just be black ministers preaching the gospel and listening to young men's problems. What ACTUALLY needs to happen is a simultaneous revolution among the black community. There needs to be a dozen or so Marin Luther King Jr. types that rise into strong influence, all around the same time, in multiple cities, all over the US. They need to influence the black community to care about education, care about each other, to stop with the crime against each other, and for the fathers to stick around with their children. This is actually what has to happen in order for the black community in the US to overcome their major issues and normalize, statistically, with the rest of the population.

No matter how many times people state that we have to solve the poverty and education issues with black people, THAT WILL ALWAYS BE WRONG. Liberals laugh at the notion that black people have to help themselves, BUT THEY ARE HORRIBLY WRONG. Black people really do have to help themselves to overcome these issues. Do you guys HONESTLY think that an educated white guy, like me, can influence the black community to stop murdering the shit out of each other? "Oh, hey, guys, stop killing each other. Love each other." 😐 You think if I throw tons of money at programs, that will help?

It has to come from within the black community. Not outside. They have to influence themselves. Sure, people outside of the black community can help. If a black minister is begging the city council to improve the poor neighbors with taxpayer money and to increase the police patrols in those areas, SUPPORT THOSE CAUSES. Seems pretty simple to do but most of us white liberals don't do that. "Ohhhh, those poor black people! boo hoo! Stop being racist towards them! waaah!" That doesn't solve shit. Actually get up off your white cracker ass and help those in your community.

News flash: black people aren't the only people that need help. Single White Mothers and Single Latino mothers seems to be another huge issue that America needs to tackle (and we need to fix our budget and start giving those billions of dollars in foreign aid to our own impoverished and destitute).

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I disagree. Until you prove it otherwise with actual facts.

12 jurors 99.9% of the time always rule correctly.

Until you can disprove jurys are corrupt then you will always be false.

Wow where did you get this 99.9 % number from?

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/how-accurate-are-juries-147/

It's estimated juries can get it wrong 1 out of 6 times and that judges are not much better.

In the study mentioned over 30% of time it was found out a judge and jury would have ruled differently.

Assuming a case even reaches trial and the defendent isn't told to take a plea deal for leniency.

As to Black vs White sentencing

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/black_prisoners_tend_to_serve_longer_sentences_than_whites
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

I'm not clicking your links. Just looking at them tells me they are bias left winged websites.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I disagree. Until you prove it otherwise with actual facts.

12 jurors 99.9% of the time always rule correctly.

Until you can disprove jurys are corrupt then you will always be false.

Juries can be influenced to make very stupid decisions. Tort is a classic example of this. Tort is out of control with people winning law suits for slipping in stores, hurting themselves, when they were literally right next to a "caution!! wet floor" sign. Quite clearly, jury trials are a less than perfect solution to court cases.

Tort is not the only area of the judicial system that can be negatively influenced by laymen juries.

Criminal cases are also, sometimes, negatively influenced by shitty and uneducated juries. You just have to be a very persuasive lawyer and you can get a criminal off charges in the US. Even in cases where the evidence is beyond 100%, some very slick criminal lawyers can convince juries to convict. Beautiful system, eh?

What about a jury of experts? 🙂

How do you think the criminal justice system would change if we didn't have a jury of peers but a jury of experts? Say, forensic scientists from out of state, criminal lawyers from out of state, medical doctors from out of state, and so forth? How about a diverse jury like that? Do you think how cases area handled would change, at all? Do you think a slick criminal lawyer could get an obviously guilty person off of criminal charges if you had a jury of doctors, lawyers, and forensic experts reviewing the case?

This is what he was talking about when it comes to juries. Jury trials may be an outdated and, at times, harmful practice.

Here is a list of alternatives to juries:

http://sixthformlaw.info/01_modules/mod1/1_5_lay_people/1_5_2_juries/14_alternatives_to_juries.htm

I like the jury of experts idea, the most. My second favorite idea is the jury comprised of judges. So you'd have a presiding judge and then 12 other judges who serve as the jury. 🙂

Good post👆

Originally posted by dadudemon
I've seen some comments about tackling "poverty and education" to stop the black crime issues in America.

I, at the very least, partially disagree with that. Latin Americans are poorer and less educated than black Americans. Yet they commit less crimes than even white people.

As fact, there are literally HUNDREDS of millions of people in the world less educated and poorer than black Americans. Yet they are far less violent.

Tackling black issues in America has to come from multiple angles. It can't just be white people giving them money to go to school and improve the neighborhoods. It can't just be black ministers preaching the gospel and listening to young men's problems. What ACTUALLY needs to happen is a simultaneous revolution among the black community. There needs to be a dozen or so Marin Luther King Jr. types that rise into strong influence, all around the same time, in multiple cities, all over the US. They need to influence the black community to care about education, care about each other, to stop with the crime against each other, and for the fathers to stick around with their children. This is actually what has to happen in order for the black community in the US to overcome their major issues and normalize, statistically, with the rest of the population.

No matter how many times people state that we have to solve the poverty and education issues with black people, THAT WILL ALWAYS BE WRONG. Liberals laugh at the notion that black people have to help themselves, BUT THEY ARE HORRIBLY WRONG. Black people really do have to help themselves to overcome these issues. Do you guys HONESTLY think that an educated white guy, like me, can influence the black community to stop murdering the shit out of each other? "Oh, hey, guys, stop killing each other. Love each other." 😐 You think if I throw tons of money at programs, that will help?

It has to come from within the black community. Not outside. They have to influence themselves. Sure, people outside of the black community can help. If a black minister is begging the city council to improve the poor neighbors with taxpayer money and to increase the police patrols in those areas, SUPPORT THOSE CAUSES. Seems pretty simple to do but most of us white liberals don't do that. "Ohhhh, those poor black people! boo hoo! Stop being racist towards them! waaah!" That doesn't solve shit. Actually get up off your white cracker ass and help those in your community.

News flash: black people aren't the only people that need help. Single White Mothers and Single Latino mothers seems to be another huge issue that America needs to tackle (and we need to fix our budget and start giving those billions of dollars in foreign aid to our own impoverished and destitute).

Incorrect statistically the black demographic is more likely to be poor than Hispanic Americans based on percentage of the population each group makes up. Although they are close.

http://www.nclej.org/poverty-in-the-us.php

Especially when you are talking deep poverty levels.

Also Hispanics make up a larger portion of male prison population than whites and are outnumbers only by the black population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

The notion that crime rates in Hispanic/Latin communities are not high as well is incorrect. They just aren't at the levels black crime rates are.

As to the rest of your statement I disagree strongly. Yes Black Communities need to work to change the problems but they need the resources to be able to do that. Generally poverty stricken areas don't have that luxury. We also need to stop looking at it as a Black problem. It is an our problem. Fellow Americans are being put into bad situations and at the very least we should acknowledge that.

Working together as one big community to me is how we help solve this issue. By claiming it is problem for Blacks to handle you are allowing yourself an out. You are saying it's not your problem and it creates an us and them mentality which is more harmful imo.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Good post👆
Wow so you won't even click my links to look at the data I procured for you but DDM says roughly the same thing and posts no links and eat it up.

Man you are one biased person.

He didn't post bias media sources like you did.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He didn't post bias media sources like you did.
He didn't post any sources about jury inaccuracy yet you still agreed with him when he said so.

Like I said you're insanely biased.

Biased about what? Cause I won't read from your bias articles?

If that's being biased, I don't know what to tell you.

And nothing he said you said, don't try and claim his argument as yours. It's much better..and not biased.

Originally posted by dadudemon
... Black people really do have to help themselves to overcome these issues. Do you guys HONESTLY think that an educated white guy, like me, can influence the black community ... ?

Mind blown.

Until nearly exactly 5 minutes ago, I honestly thought you WERE black.

So I likewise have to conclude "Yes, assuming that the written word has influence on people, an educated white guy like Dadudemon CAN influence the black community -- provided, at least, that there are no clues provided regarding his own racial background and his only contacts with people are through his writings.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Biased about what? Cause I won't read from your bias articles?

If that's being biased, I don't know what to tell you.

You're biased because I showed a study linking to the inaccuracies of jury sentencing.

Yet all DDM has to do is say sentencing by a Jury is inaccurate without showing any evidence and you give him a good post.

You're seriously irritating. 😬

No you posted bias WSJ crap.

DDM's argument and post trumps your on all accounts.

Then quit responding to me👆

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Then quit responding to me👆
Not when you make untrue claims like juries are 99.9% accurate.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Mind blown.

Until nearly exactly 5 minutes ago, I honestly thought you WERE black.

So I likewise have to conclude "Yes, assuming that the written word has influence on people, an educated white guy like Dadudemon CAN influence the black community -- provided, at least, that there are no clues provided regarding his own racial background and his only contacts with people are through his writings.

DDM has great post, I said the same thing earlier. But some people here won't accept it.

Originally posted by Newjak
Not when you make untrue claims like juries are 99.9% accurate.

So your a Internet factoid mongrel and you can't leave me the hell alone. You probbably the most annoying poster on the enitire internet, it's too bad I have to read your posts.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So your a Internet factoid mongrel and you can't leave me the hell alone. You probbably the most annoying poster on the enitire internet, it's too bad I have to read your posts.
So you're mad because I called you out on your BS statistic and actually posted evidence that showed it to be false?

I guess some people can not take a little thing called fact checking.