Black people do need to help themselves, it's true and it's easy to say. But guess what, they make up roughly 12% of the US population, that's likely not enough to change the status quo.
Back in the Civil Rights unrest of the 60's they still needed other non-black (ie white people) to support their cause and laws changed because the non-black majority joined in and supported them.
So saying "black people need to help themselves" is sort of an empty truth. Yes, but they can't do it alone.
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialExaggeration is a dangerous game. Especially when you try to use an exaggerated stat to drop a talking point such as Black vs White sentencing is not equal for similar crimes.
Oh yea cause I said 99.9%. Guess what. I did a whole lot of researching on that statistic.Have you ever heard the term "exaggeration?"
Perhaps you should do more research to help you make a more informed opinion.
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialI'm not the one trying to keep some win loss counter between posters 🙄
How come your the only one here with a massive ego? DDM can run circles around you and your arguments yet he does it with humility and some humor tied in. You project this massive egotistical approach to every single one of your posts with circular logic.
Originally posted by Newjak
Incorrect statistically the black demographic is more likely to be poor than Hispanic Americans based on percentage of the population each group makes up. Although they are close.
My bad. I specifically was referring to immigrants from Latin America. First generation. They are poorer and less educated than black people. If I were to referring to all of Hispanic Americans, I'd have called them that. I have no idea what to call the immigrants. I always thought they were called "Latinos."
I've posted about this topic, before, in other threads, multiple times, with cited sources. Uhh, at work. But I will try to find the posts I'm referring to. Often, I just assume everyone remembers the rants I post so I don't have to retype everything every time these topics come up.
Originally posted by Newjak
Also Hispanics make up a larger portion of male prison population than whites and are outnumbers only by the black population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_StatesThe notion that crime rates in Hispanic/Latin communities are not high as well is incorrect. They just aren't at the levels black crime rates are.
What I'm talking about is a very widely known phenomena, within criminology and sociology circles. It is called the "Latino Paradox."
To cite an actual study:
Consider first the “Latino Paradox.” Hispanic Americans do better on a wide range of social indicators—including propensity to violence—than one would expect given their socioeconomic disadvantages. To assess this paradox in more depth, my colleagues and I examined violent acts committed by nearly 3,000 males and females in Chicago ranging in age from 8 to 25 between 1995 and 2003. The study selected whites, blacks, and Hispanics (primarily Mexican-Americans) from 180 neighborhoods ranging from highly segregated to very integrated. We also analyzed data from police records, the U.S. Census, and a separate survey of more than 8,000 Chicago residents who were asked about the characteristics of their neighborhoods.[bold]Notably, we found a significantly lower rate of violence among Mexican-Americans compared to blacks and whites.[/bold] A major reason is that more than a quarter of those of Mexican descent were born abroad and more than half lived in neighborhoods where the majority of residents were also Mexican. In particular, first-generation immigrants (those born outside the United States) were 45 percent less likely to commit violence than third-generation Americans, adjusting for individual, family, and neighborhood background. Second-generation immigrants were 22 percent less likely to commit violence than the third generation. This pattern held true for non-Hispanic whites and blacks as well. Our study further showed living in a neighborhood of concentrated immigration was directly associated with lower violence (again, after taking into account a host of correlated factors, including poverty and an individual’s immigrant status). Immigration thus appeared “protective” against violence.
-Robert J. Sampson
Originally posted by Newjak
As to the rest of your statement I disagree strongly. Yes Black Communities need to work to change the problems but they need the resources to be able to do that.
Quite clearly, "resources" are not the issue for the other reasons I've stated. Resources can be secondary or tertiary sources of resolving the problem, but not primarily where the building and improvements will come from in the sociological structures of the black community.
Originally posted by Newjak
Generally poverty stricken areas don't have that luxury. We also need to stop looking at it as a Black problem.
This is kind of what I've been preaching. It is a black culture problem, no a black race issue. Americans need to step away from the notion that this has anything to do with race and everything to do with culture.
Originally posted by Newjak
It is an our problem. Fellow Americans are being put into bad situations and at the very least we should acknowledge that.
hmm
Okay. This is a very powerful argument you've just made. I think this will make me rethink my position on this, actually. In fact, I will now change the ways I present my arguments. If you see me present this argument, in the future, in a way that seems to virtually plagiarize what you've just said, don't be offended. Be proud. I may not always remember to give you credit for this but I will almost always remember your words when I present my argument on this topic, in the future.
Originally posted by Newjak
Working together as one big community to me is how we help solve this issue. By claiming it is problem for Blacks to handle you are allowing yourself an out. You are saying it's not your problem and it creates an us and them mentality which is more harmful imo.
No, I don't think it is an out. I even pointed out how lazy white liberals can actually help the black community by...actually helping in genuine efforts. 😄
I think American social liberals are generally lazy. They like to talk. But they are full of useless talk and don't actually do anything to solve the problems they whine about.
We need a nation of social liberal doers, not sayers.
Originally posted by Newjak
He didn't post any sources about jury inaccuracy yet you still agreed with him when he said so.Like I said you're insanely biased.
I can help you out with TI:
I referred to an actual case that anyone who has been to law school would be very familiar with.
Also, when I talk to TI and we disagree, I disagree respectfully. I know it can be frustrating to try to talk to people like TI because TI has very strong opinions and distrust for certain elements in politics. So do I. So do you. We just happen to, all three, differ in which political elements we distrust.
Try approaching topics with TI with more respect and logic. Point out where you think he makes good points/arguments, and then very methodically provide information on where you disagree. Try to stay away from insults (which includes condescension and patrionizing).
I also believe in listening to the success of others. There is no need to rewrite the book to fixing problems when someone who has fixed them tells you how to do it:
Originally posted by dadudemonHmm I would call them Latino Immigrants myself to avoid confusion but that may not be the recognized term but I at least know what you mean now by Latinos now.
My bad. I specifically was referring to immigrants from Latin America. First generation. They are poorer and less educated than black people. If I were to referring to all of Hispanic Americans, I'd have called them that. I have no idea what to call the immigrants. I always thought they were called "Latinos."I've posted about this topic, before, in other threads, multiple times, with cited sources. Uhh, at work. But I will try to find the posts I'm referring to. Often, I just assume everyone remembers the rants I post so I don't have to retype everything every time these topics come up.
What I'm talking about is a very widely known phenomena, within criminology and sociology circles. It is called the "Latino Paradox."
To cite an actual study:
-Robert J. Sampson
Quite clearly, "resources" are not the issue for the other reasons I've stated. Resources can be secondary or tertiary sources of resolving the problem, but not primarily where the building and improvements will come from in the sociological structures of the black community.
This is kind of what I've been preaching. It is a black culture problem, no a black race issue. Americans need to step away from the notion that this has anything to do with race and everything to do with culture.
hmm
Okay. This is a very powerful argument you've just made. I think this will make me rethink my position on this, actually. In fact, I will now change the ways I present my arguments. If you see me present this argument, in the future, in a way that seems to virtually plagiarize what you've just said, don't be offended. Be proud. I may not always remember to give you credit for this but I will almost always remember your words when I present my argument on this topic, in the future.
No, I don't think it is an out. I even pointed out how lazy white liberals can actually help the black community by...actually helping in genuine efforts. 😄
I think American social liberals are generally lazy. They like to talk. But they are full of useless talk and don't actually do anything to solve the problems they whine about.
We need a nation of social liberal doers, not sayers.
I can help you out with TI:
I referred to an actual case that anyone who has been to law school would be very familiar with.
Also, when I talk to TI and we disagree, I disagree respectfully. I know it can be frustrating to try to talk to people like TI because TI has very strong opinions and distrust for certain elements in politics. So do I. So do you. We just happen to, all three, differ in which political elements we distrust.
Try approaching topics with TI with more respect and logic. Point out where you think he makes good points/arguments, and then very methodically provide information on where you disagree. Try to stay away from insults (which includes condescension and patrionizing).
I'm trying to remember and I may have to do some more research but aren't Immigrants from Africa the same way. Lower crime rates and poverty levels than third generation African Americans? I could be wrong but I thought the trend was generally immigrants do decently well in those areas.
It's interesting to see how third generation minorities do against immigrant minorities.
What do you mean by a black culture problem?