Originally posted by MS WarehouseAnd I said an SSD, as in the Eclipse Star Dreadnought Palpatine destroyed, which can feasibly tank impacts in excess of this:
He said a regular star destroyer and have we seen an SSD actually do anything resembling that or is this all a desperate rationalization?
That's 3 ISD's colliding with the Executor as lightspeed.
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Ok so the sidious crew is now arguing that one of the imperial ships could PROBABLY destroy a planet if it wanted to. Thats where we are at now with the reaching.
🙄 No, silly, the "sidious crew" has provided you with authoritative sources depicting imperial ships actually turning planetary surfaces to molten slag (this is literally a standard operation - base delta zero), and other sources telling you that they actually overpower the world's combined nuclear arsenal by six orders of magnitude. This isn't speculation, this is what the literature says.
Now of course, star destroyers can't mass-scatter planets Alderaan style - but neither can Vitiate, so who cares? The important part is that destroying a fleet is infinitely more impressive than wiping out all life on a planet, given that the latter can be accomplished by a troop transport. And Palpatine can do this without a ritual, prep, a nexus or anything but his raw power and will.
Vitiate loses. 👆
I'm starting to think you don't know what "sources" mean. You type a few sentence, say its in some book, and move on. That's not how this works. Then you decide to desperately reduce vitiate's power by screaming , "well uh a ship can do something similar. " This chain of events and throwing darts at a board leads me to believe you don't really think vitiate loses 👆
I didn't say it's in some book, silly, I quoted someone who actually gave you the source, lmao.
The Imperial Star Destroyer has enough firepower to reduce a civilized world to slag
Imperial Sourcebook, p.61
These colossal, wedge-shaped behemoths, bristling with turboweapons and carrying entire TIE squadrons within them, each possess more firepower than the entire planetary forces of most worlds, and can reduce a planet surface to smoking debris in a matter of hours.
Star Wars Technical Journal, vol.2, p.17
... to rendezvous at Dankayo and reduce the tiny base to molten slag. Even before the last of its atmosphere drifted away, before the dense clouds of atomized topsoil could begin to settle, Imperial transports Elusive and Timely, as well as a complement of TIE fighters, moved in to perform "mop-up" operations and a through search of Dankayo's now evenly-cratered surface.
Scavenger Hunt, p.3
Transmitted from Dankayo to Alliance Com Buoy 965C shortly after the Imperial attack
Entry I
As instructed, I have remained behind until the last of our transports departed safely into hyperspace. Imperial Star Destroyers have so thoroughly blasted Dankayo that I fear for my safety, even in this deep-planet survival shelter.
Scavenger Hunt, p.20
"Sir, what about bombardment? Is there a stage for that?"
"Blasting a planet from orbit is easy — you don't need me to tell you how to do that. Limited orbital strikes would occur during the invasion stage. Just hope you are never given a Base Delta Zero order, lieutenant. Ah, yes, another question?"
"Sir, what's the Base Delta Zero order?"
"Base Delta Zero is the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities. All other Imperial codes are subject to change, as you well know, but this code is always the same to prevent any confusion when the order is given. Base Delta Zero is rarely issued. ...."
A World to Conquor, Star Wars Adventure Journal #2, p.256
This is one of the more famous abilities in vs. debate history, I'm kinda surprised you didn't know about it.
As for its relevance to the thread topic, this has also been explained to you. If a single destroyer can exceed Vitiate's destructive abilities, it obviously isn't as impressive as a Storm that can wipe out an Eclipse super star destroyer, seeing as how we can clearly see that it takes the combined firepower of the entire Rebel fleet to take down a weaker Executor.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
As for its relevance to the thread topic, this has also been explained to you. If a single destroyer can exceed Vitiate's destructive abilities, it obviously isn't as impressive as a Storm that can wipe out an Eclipse super star destroyer, seeing as how we can clearly see that it takes the combined firepower of the entire Rebel fleet to take down a weaker Executor.
It's still more impressive given what one man was able to do vs. trying to compare it to a giant ship. All we have with Palpatine's force storms is what he theoretically could do.
And I hesitate to ask how long it would take to annihilate a planet using one of those ships because it's undoubtedly longer than the time it took Vitiate
to destroy Ziost.
Edit: I'm also trying to see from those quotes if the destruction would be as complete as Vitiate's rituals.
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
It's still more impressive given what one man was able to do vs. trying to compare it to a giant ship. All we have with Palpatine's force storms is what he theoretically could do.And I hesitate to ask how long it would take to annihilate a planet using one of those ships because it's undoubtedly longer than the time it took Vitiate
to destroy Ziost.Edit: I'm also trying to see from those quotes if the destruction would be as complete as Vitiate's rituals.
Per the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, a BDZ operation reduces a "planet's crust to molten slag." That's in vast excess of Vitiate's Ziost ritual.
As far as how long? The Star Wars Technical Journal says a matter of hours.
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
It's still more impressive given what one man was able to do vs. trying to compare it to a giant ship. All we have with Palpatine's force storms is what he theoretically could do.
...no? He actually destroyed an Eclipse super star destroyer. Not to mention that statements of what he could do by official sourcebooks stand as evidence, and cannot be dismissed for being "theoretical".
And I hesitate to ask how long it would take to annihilate a planet using one of those ships because it's undoubtedly longer than the time it took Vitiate
to destroy Ziost.
Nope, seeing as how an Acclamator can divert around e24 watts to its heavy turbolasers, which are orders of magnitude in excess of the most liberal estimates for what would be needed to start a nuclear winter.
Edit: I'm also trying to see from those quotes if the destruction would be as complete as Vitiate's rituals.
It says that it would not only destroy all life, but all resources, factories, minerals, etc. Not to mention it would reduce the planet's surface to molten lava. Did Vitiate reduce Ziost to molten lava?
BTW I'm being really generous to you by being lazy and not digging up Saxton's descriptions, which were backed by Leland Chee as the authoritative source for firepower specifications [in the EU].
Not to mention that statements of what he could do by official sourcebooks stand as evidence, and cannot be dismissed for being "theoretical".
...yes? If a third person omniscient narrator said that, I would take it as true unless if it were contradicted by other sources, in which case we would have to analyze which ones were more reliable, or somehow reconcile them. That's better than your method of just dismissing everything you don't like on face, lol.
BTW, unless if you're planning on editing your post, you have a lot of work to do defending the rest of your argument, since if it fails the theoretical part doesn't matter - what Palpatine actually did is still more impressive. 👆
Originally posted by MS Warehouse
This makes about as much sense as using Vitiate's galaxy wide ritual should he ever complete one, since it's as theoretical as what Sidious "would do", especially since Vitiate was stated that he "could do it" too.
The codex says Vitiate "intends" to conduct that kind of ritual. Does it ever actually say that it could be pulled off?
Paging Neph
That's better than your method of just dismissing everything you don't like on face, lol.
BTW, unless if you're planning on editing your post, you have a lot of work to do defending the rest of your argument, since if it fails the theoretical part doesn't matter - what Palpatine actually did is still more impressive.
The codex says Vitiate "intends" to conduct that kind of ritual. Does it ever actually say that it could be pulled off?
lol dude you've literally devolved into deleting arguments. You just dropped the ball on the base delta zero and eclipse star destroyer thing.
Oh the irony (another concept you don't appear to understand) Lol.
How does this continue the conversation of whether OOU narrators are reliable sources?
Based on your debating skills, that would be like me taking basketball pointers from my cat. The theoretical part absolutely makes sense. Just because you keep saying it doesn't, doesn't mean it doesn't. I know you seem to think if you say something enough times that it will become true, but I'm afraid life doesn't work that way sad
How is this an actual argument? You literally said nothing of substance here. You said "the theoretical part absolutely makes sense" and then neglected to actually argue anything.
At this point your debating skills have devolved into literally nothing - you just gave up on even saying anything.