Originally posted by TondemonaiRed matter took out a super nova and the Narada by just coming into contact. Watch the film. Your Star Trek ignorance is nauseating me.
Red matter is only effective after being dropped into a planets core which has been drilled into. Literally all it would take is a TIE-Fighter to take out the drill and maybe two more to destroy the entire ship
Originally posted by SunRazerI'm assuming we are taking each individual empire at the height of their power, rather than creating duplicates. Since the old Sith Empire was one state but ruled by various people. But I suppose we could throw in Adas' Empire as well.
Yeah, that was pretty dumb. Though I'm not sure how many times you get to include the Primitive Sith Empires, not that they'd make much of a difference. It'd require speculation, but there's also quite a few Empires during the New Sith Wars. Besides, there's a lot more Force users in the older Empires, which compensates for the numbers difference.I'm also inclined to think that what numbers are available for the old Empires are sufficient to hold off the GE whilst things like the Star Forge are mass-producing virtually infinite fleets that will indeed be shitting on the GE in terms of number. Ant could probably expand on the SF's capabilities better than I could, but it's quite possibly the most powerful superweapon ever.
Also, how many Sith are there in Vitiate's Empire? Because the military outnumbered the Sith 10000 to 1, IIRC.
However I'm really not convinced anything pre-Hyperspace War could so much as put a dent in an ISD. mmm
But nah, as I say the Sith Empire's have nothing that could stop the advance of an SSD, let alone with a full ISD escort. And with interdictors at their sole disposal it would be easy to immoblise the enemy fleets while they drive a hammer into the Sith Empires' key resources, including the Star Forge. And once under the GE's control well there goes the oppositions numerical advantage. We've also got to consider shock factor, the opposition has never experienced anything like what the GE is packing. Once the ISD's start tearing up shit they will be thrown into disarray, blitzkreig tactics would be of great effect in that way.
And I don't know, I believe some source said millions, but I can't remember where that was. On that topic though I think the Sith Empires can definitely match the GE pound for pound on the ground, and their Force sensitives ranks give them a considerable advantage. But it's a question of how well they'll be able to bring that advantage to bear when they are losing so terribly in space warfare.
Also how many top-tier Sith are we allowing here? Should we consider the likes of Sidious, Vitiate, the Dread Masters, Nihilus, Revan, Naga Sadow, etc. to be in play? Because if so this conflict could well be decided by them.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Red matter took out a super nova and the Narada by just coming into contact. Watch the film. Your Star Trek ignorance is nauseating me.
I did. If all they needed to do was just drop it on something to activate the singularity, then why did they have to drill into the core? On top of that, you imply that it's impressive. Sun Crusher > the entirety of Star Trek combined.
Originally posted by TondemonaiThat has to do with a planet not a ship. They will be doing this to their ships and space stations.
I did. If all they needed to do was just drop it on something to activate the singularity, then why did they have to drill into the core? On top of that, you imply that it's impressive. Sun Crusher > the entirety of Star Trek combined.
Canon only. Trek Kelvin films >>> Ot films.
Also quit forgetting about Q.
Originally posted by SunRazer
This is the GE as of RotJ. You're using NR-era superweapons.
They're in development in the maw; without the Empire's collapse it should only be a few more years until they're operational. Besides, we know that the Empire can construct a Death Star in like a year or so, and if it were to devote its industry to full scale war rather than fighting insurgencies, it could probably build a lot more a lot faster.
For these, I'd counter with the Star Forge, the Mass Shadow Generator, Desolator, the Gauntlet, the Dark Reaper, etc, which can all eradicate planetary surfaces/all life on those surfaces, or entire fleets.
Even with the Star Forge's production, Revan's military was a fraction the size of the Empire's. And all the others aren't even necessarily more potent than a fleet of star destroyers or capable of penetrating a planetary shield, let alone the Death Star with its capacity to literal blow up a planet. They are also much easier to destroy.
These are all somewhat comparable to the Death Star in terms of destructive capacity (eradicating all life on a world will be approximately equal to destroying a planet itself for the sake of simplicity) - some being capable of tearing apart worlds and fleets as well, and they're more numerous than the GE's superweapons. We've yet to consider the Corsair, which can cause solar flares or even detonate stars, which can wipe out entire fleets/planets. And, of course, Nihilus, the Dread Masters, Vitiate's rituals, etc - though I suppose it'd only be fair if we had Sidious and his BM/Wormholes as well.
Even if we think that both sides have parity on the superweapons part - which seems unlikely, seeing as how the Death Star when completed is effectively impregnable and if the war doesn't end quickly, Palpatine gets sun crushers and galaxy guns, the Empire is so much larger, and has planetary shielding, so it could win via sheer attrition.
Also, it'd help if most of Vitiate's Empire's capital ships had a Silencer equipped, since those can annihilate small fleets/capital ships, IIRC. Nox tells the Moffs to get one installed on their capital ships, but I don't recall anything being spoken about the whether that ended up happening.
There's actually no reason to think that those would be effective against imperial star destroyers.
These are valid points. That said, there's also Sith orders like the Triumvirate, which had no conquest interests, but still eliminated tens of thousands of Jedi and could wipe out all life on entire worlds.
Yeah, the sith empires' advantage is the sheer number of their force users, though Palpatine has his own share of dark side adepts, as well as his own force storms.
@Beni - Is the space advantage so vast? As you said, if we're including top tier Sith, then this makes a huge difference. After all, despite the relatively puny size of the Old Sith Empire to the Galactic Republic, Sadow's Battle Meditation + Illusions made it so that they were practically curbing, and we have the Dread Masters tearing apart fleets with their TP. Nihilus feasting on worlds is another benefit.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The ancient Sith knew how to form these too, iirc, so how does this help him?
They were never able to create planet busting ones that can strike across the galaxy.
DE Sidious could just teleport all of the sith leaders to his palace and have them executed.
Originally posted by SunRazer
@Beni - Is the space advantage so vast? As you said, if we're including top tier Sith, then this makes a huge difference. After all, despite the relatively puny size of the Old Sith Empire to the Galactic Republic, Sadow's Battle Meditation + Illusions made it so that they were practically curbing, and we have the Dread Masters tearing apart fleets with their TP. Nihilus feasting on worlds is another benefit.
They'd still have to contend with rapid strikes and orbital bombardment from the Empire's fleets of star destroyers and superweapons. Nihilus can't do that as quickly.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
They were never able to create planet busting ones that can strike across the galaxy.DE Sidious could just teleport all of the sith leaders to his palace and have them executed.
The Sith leaders would butcher everyone in his palace. Even Palpatine can't fight them all at once. And even if Palpatine knew precisely where each of them were, teleporting them each to his Palace seems like a fantastical scenario of precision.
Palpatine's adepts don't even remotely compare to the Sith Lords of old, lol. As long as there's one major Dark Lord and a bunch of the weaker Sith leading the charge on each planet, the GE's screwed. Then there's the fact that many of these old Sith Lords will live on as spirits, and they can possess the crews of nearby GE capital ships and crash them into planets as Horak-Mul did in TOR.
They'd still have to contend with rapid strikes and orbital bombardment from the Empire's fleets of star destroyers and superweapons. Nihilus can't do that as quickly.
Your average Interdictor-class warship from the KotOR era can ravage planets ala Taris. Silencer-equipped capital ships from the TOR era can nuke entire fleets, and the technology available to the GE means nothing when they're being mind controlled by the DM's to use that technology on their own fleets. We're also forgetting Sadow's Battle Meditation + Illusions, which would easily give any Old Empire Fleet the win over a GE fleet. There's simply far more BM practitioners in the Old Empires than the GE.
And if he's losing, Sadow can just run away and blow up the nearest star, which would wipe out the GE fleet too.
Tech doesn't compare to the Force - a notion repeatedly established in SW.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
They were never able to create planet busting ones that can strike across the galaxy.
DE Sidious could just teleport all of the sith leaders to his palace and have them executed.