The quote bar isn't working rn for some reason.
That's not a rebuttal.
If it was, debating would be pretty damn easy.
It is because I already explained which scenes proved the points I mentioned above.
"The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?"
Fair enough.
Clarify how this remotely addresses my point.
I assume it doesn't, but I have to grasp what you're reaching at first.
The blows coming out of nowhere isn't necessarily a statement from Luke's perspective but another third person omniscent observation.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You've just reverses positions. Previous you claimed that someone's raw or potential power is a source that a character is capable of drawing on in moments of focus or rage.But not his power as a whole.
In your interpretation.
The difference being that the quote isn't referencing employable power but power in general.
Recalling the details of how you used to look doesn't indicate that you suppressed your memories.
No, raw power or potential power can be drawn upon, in which the amount you do is applicable power.
Which isn't what it's referring to, unless you think it's suggesting Darth Vader > the Father.
No, it's not for reasons above. If it was, though, then it's automatically retconed by a Lucas quote.
Only after feeling the guilt of his current crimes could his mind wander back to his old memories.
Thus, it was suppressed by virtue that only guilt could unlock it, and not until Palpatine's death did Vader have s
Regardless of all the side plots you've set up it comes down to two things.
Whether you want to accept what Vader is saying about himself or come up with some contrived perspective that Vader wasn't taking into account half of his life in those musing.
And if you put more stock in obviously hyperbolic narrative statements over the statement of Sidious despite all evidence to the contrary in regards to his vastly differing performances based on his mental state.
It is because I already explained which scenes proved the points I mentioned above.
Which not only didn't contradict the quote, but didn't even hold up to the specific claims you made.
The blows coming out of nowhere isn't necessarily a statement from Luke's perspective but another third person omniscent observation.
Go further with it. Explain how this means that my claim was wrong. Come on, you can do it.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Regardless of all the side plots you've set up it comes down to two things.Whether you want to accept what Vader is saying about himself or come up with some contrived perspective that Vader wasn't taking into account half of his life in those musing.
It's confirmed that Darth Vader isn't referring to Anakin Skywalker. 👆
And if you put more stock in obviously hyperbolic narrative statements over the statement of Sidious despite all evidence to the contrary in regards to his vastly differing performances based on his mental state.
This seems like a new argument from you altogether.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, raw power or potential power can be drawn upon, in which the amount you do is applicable power.Which isn't what it's referring to, unless you think it's suggesting Darth Vader > the Father.
No, it's not for reasons above. If it was, though, then it's automatically retconed by a Lucas quote.
Only after feeling the guilt of his current crimes could his mind wander back to his old memories.
Thus, it was suppressed by virtue that only guilt could unlock it, and not until Palpatine's death did Vader have s
And you've stated that Anakin can tap into that full power given enough time to concentrate/focus or whilst in a rage.
Depends on your stance on Sidious's statement that it was Vader's mental state that inhibited his capabilities rather then his physical injuries.
Isn't this from the same batch of quotes where Lucas gave vague and uncertain answers for everything like Vader being 80% of Sidious, etc?
It's because he couldn't dwell on those memories without feeling guilt and weakness which as Darth Vader he'd want to suppress. It doesn't mean he actively couldn't remember them.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Which not only didn't contradict the quote, but didn't even hold up to the specific claims you made.
Go further with it. Explain how this means that my claim was wrong. Come on, you can do it. [/B]
How? How does pointing out that Sidious doesn't think Anakin has surpassed either him or Yoda by that point or Anakin performing far beneath the pedestal you place him on?
And no Ant, I'm not going to respond your childish and antagonistic prodding.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's confirmed that Darth Vader isn't referring to Anakin Skywalker. 👆This seems like a new argument from you altogether. [/B]
Where? Where's your proof? Where does it say "More powerful then he's ever been. Oh, except not when he was Anakin Skywalker of course."
It's really not. It's the position I've held since before you even started your little crusade.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And you've stated that Anakin can tap into that full power given enough time to concentrate/focus or whilst in a rage.Depends on your stance on Sidious's statement that it was Vader's mental state that inhibited his capabilities rather then his physical injuries.
Isn't this from the same batch of quotes where Lucas gave vague and uncertain answers for everything like Vader being 80% of Sidious, etc?
It's because he couldn't dwell on those memories without feeling guilt and weakness which as Darth Vader he'd want to suppress. It doesn't mean he actively couldn't remember them.
Lucas clarified it was his physical injuries and cybernetics.
Yes.
No, it means he couldn't reference them without first recognizing the guilt. If Darth Vader could actively think upon them, he would have been redeemed a long time sooner. The point was that, when transforming into Darth Vader and submerging himself into the dark side for decades, he lost his humanity and forgot what his past life was to the extent that he now viewed it as completely separate. Only after Luke's redemption did he remember he had a wife, etc.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Where? Where's your proof? Where does it say "More powerful then he's ever been. Oh, except not when he was Anakin Skywalker of course."It's really not. It's the position I've held since before you even started your little crusade.
I meant in regards to our discussion.
Whatever the case, the most arrogant person in Star Wars doesn't trump an omniscient narrator.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Just because you don't think Vader ever thinks in terms of considering his former self doesn't mean he doesn't.You have no evidence other then your opinion based on conversations where he's refereed to himself in the third person.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He can always tap into it - it's a matter of how much he can. That changes on his emotional state.Lucas clarified it was his physical injuries and cybernetics.
Yes.
No, it means he couldn't reference them without first recognizing the guilt. If Darth Vader could actively think upon them, he would have been redeemed a long time sooner. The point was that, when transforming into Darth Vader and submerging himself into the dark side for decades, he lost his humanity and forgot what his past life was to the extent that he now viewed it as completely separate. Only after Luke's redemption did he remember he had a wife, etc.
That's what I've been saying. Regardless I already stated that I disagreed the quote was referring to Mustafar Anakin specifically given the other quotes referencing the encounter.
I don't see why those should be taken over third person omniscient author quotes granted I understand why one would side with them over Sidious's musings.
He didn't forget them. He just refused to think about them or view them in a light that would allow him to come to terms with them. He even thinks of Padme and Obi Wan at the beginning of RotJ using his memories of them to fuel his rage.