LordOfTheLight
Senior Member
Originally posted by Lord Stark
This is also a dumb false equivalency. Vader is rated at 80% of Sidious power wise as per canon and in addition, was fully focused and distracted. It'd be a credible point if Sidious were starting at him.We have no idea how long Kylo had been trained for. But we haven't seen anything to suggest he was anything but a Padawan.
Yoda flat out said his training was complete aside from confronting Vader. Luke's just a prodigy.
Training doesn't particularly matter. AOTCs Anakin has more training than ROTJ Luke, but Luke is more powerful. Kylo's feats don't really show him as being anywhere near that level currently, let alone years earlier.
1. It is pretty evident that someone who has been battered by someone else who Palpatine effectively destroyed, will "not" be 80% of Palpatine.
Regardless, it doesn't matter "who" caught Luke off guard. Non-force sensitives have caught Jedi Masters off guard before.
"Non-force sensitives". Who are literally nothing, absolutely nothing to them. Likewise, opponents of a similar calibre too, have caught Jedi off guard.
It....does....not....matter.
Since we are taking Lucas''s words at face value here, he has implied that Vader before the suit was as powerful as Sidious and Yoda( indeed the tiering system that he and Gillard developed outright says that). Yet simply due to his immense rage and anger, he was completely unable to sense his own Master, standing just feet away from him till he saw him. Vader, upto that singular point( till he sees Obi Wan), is the most powerful he has ever been. The thing which you need to get into your skull, is that during moments of extreme emotion, you are not expected to sense things which you are supposed to sense passively when you are otherwise balanced. It doesn't matter how powerful you are. This is purely dependent on your state of mind.
Getting caught off guard has nothing to do with your opponent and everything to do with you.
2. So is Kylo, and clearly a "Skywalker level" prodigy. Also, Yoda said no more training do you require, because Luke had learned the essentials, that is, initiate level stuff on his own. However, the quality of his self training would, pretty obviously be much worse than the quality of training he would get from a master.
3. Kylo was pretty much equal to Rey in their force struggle, and Rey's Tk feat blows most PT era Council Members out of the water. What's more, Rey struggled to match Kylo, much more than she struggled with the rocks( she actually didn't), so such a feat would be pretty casual for current Kylo.
Not sure exactly how powerful previous Kylo would be, but by then he had already fallen to the dark side and under Snoke's influence.
Lastly, another reason your argument falls apart, is that there isn't a shred of logic to it. You know, very well, that Kylo is a prodigy and it has been made very clear that he has the Skywalker potential. You know, again, that Kylo was trained, at the very least, in a much better fashion than Luke was( unless you are suggesting that his training was somehoe worse than Luke spending those few weeks on Dagobah, which needless to say, is retarded). In addition, he's older than Luke was.
So, assuming that Luke is so powerful, he is able to go toe to toe with Vader who grounds 99.999% of Jedi Masters in all of SW to dust, is it really far fetched to say that Ben/Kylo at the time would be extremely powerful in his own right? Really not, is the answer. So, even if we go by the silly assumption that somehow, being cheap-shotted by a weak person is an anti-feat, by all grounds, Kylo isn't/wasn't a weak person.
Heck, Kenobi was a padawan in TPM, and he was recognized as one of the most capable and best Jedi of his day, among the echelons of the best masters of the Jedi Order. All Kylo lacks is exposure. Have you even stopped to consider that it might as well be a feat for Kylo instead of the anti feat for Luke that you are continuing to parrot?
So, really, your argument holds no merit. There is literally nothing to it from any perspective we take. Right from your pretty baseless suggestion that padawan Kylo is fodder, to your literal refusal to acknowledge that Luke was massively conflicted( which you have ignored for the most part), and could possibly not have been expected to sense a cheap-shot coming his way, not when literally so many characters, powerful ones have been cheap-shotted before,
And lastly, your utterly illogical equation of you getting caught off guard, to your opponent, and not your frame of mind.