Omnipotence vs. Omniscience

Originally posted by beatboks
And yet in post crisis Stranger wasn't home magi and didn't have a cost in this issue and many more. Because in this instance he wasn't using magic he was manipulating the mana around him.

In all four of his origins he was able to do magic because of his Immortal life allowing him to learn it.

If the guys bulletproof the Omniscient knows that and knows his weakness. Those guards are armed with said weakness or have fed him a poison prior. Or they have someone (or many someones) he loves at gunpoint ready to kill when he draws a gun.

The Omniscient knows in adavance he will be be threat and knows what he can and can't do to get at the one with power. There's no play where the guy with all knowledge doesn't have the upper hand.

Or the omnipotent one has no weakness.

And removes the omniscient one's knowledge.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or the omnipotent one has no weakness.

And removes the omniscient one's knowledge.

Since the omnipotent one in this scenario isn't Omniscient he doesn't know until he engages the Omniscient one that he has the knowledge to remove it. By which time the Omniscient one has already prepared for him.

Reed isn't Omniscient yet with the knowledge he has he could make an ultimate nulifyer to deal with Galactus hos a he'll of a lot closer to omnipotent than Reed is Omniscient.

Doom isn't Omniscient but could prep to deal with beings that were nigh omnipotent like Marquis of Death, Beyonder and others.

Arion is far from Omniscient yet with his power lost and only his knowledge of magic he defeated Chaon many times.

True omniscience means they know/knew everything. That they have had their entire life to prepare for this moment with full knowledge of what is needed to win and where to obtain it. An omnipotent can only beat an Omniscient if they also have omniscience.

Back to your story. The 98 year old Omniscient knew when he was an indant that when he was 98 he would meet a 25 yr old omnipotent that would try to take his omniscience and kill him. He also knew all the way back then exactly what and who would influence this omnipotent. He has has had 98 years to twist those influences if that is what he knew he needed. He has had full knowledge of exactly what he needed to win, where to acquire it, how long it would take and the time to make the plans to deal with everything that will come from now until the endnof time. Every future invention, power source, and how they will work.

Originally posted by beatboks
Since the omnipotent one in this scenario isn't Omniscient he doesn't know until he engages the Omniscient one that he has the knowledge to remove it. By which time the Omniscient one has already prepared for him.

Reed isn't Omniscient yet with the knowledge he has he could make an ultimate nulifyer to deal with Galactus hos a he'll of a lot closer to omnipotent than Reed is Omniscient.

Doom isn't Omniscient but could prep to deal with beings that were nigh omnipotent like Marquis of Death, Beyonder and others.

Arion is far from Omniscient yet with his power lost and only his knowledge of magic he defeated Chaon many times.

True omniscience means they know/knew everything. That they have had their entire life to prepare for this moment with full knowledge of what is needed to win and where to obtain it. An omnipotent can only beat an Omniscient if they also have omniscience.

Back to your story. The 98 year old Omniscient knew when he was an indant that when he was 98 he would meet a 25 yr old omnipotent that would try to take his omniscience and kill him. He also knew all the way back then exactly what and who would influence this omnipotent. He has has had 98 years to twist those influences if that is what he knew he needed. He has had full knowledge of exactly what he needed to win, where to acquire it, how long it would take and the time to make the plans to deal with everything that will come from now until the endnof time. Every future invention, power source, and how they will work.

Why can't the omnipotent one give himself omniscience? I mean, you don't have to be a genius to do so.

Or time travel back to the past, and give himself omniscience whilst simultaneously taking away the omniscient one's knowledge? Like, just wish that he never had omniscience ever, retroactively into the past.

He doesn't even need to. Beatboks fails to realise that bascially all of his examples require prep(time) and outside resources that's not what the thread asks for. I don't need omniscience to fire the UN towards Galactus. If you're omnipotent you can just blink someone out of existence while having and omniprotective forcefield around you.

If we have 2 clones with no powers or equipment that are exactly the same and somehow give one of them omniscience and the other omnipotence and place them in a vs battle. The omnipotent will win ∞/10.

So far, the best version I feel I like to pick is assnerd's

Simultaneously having Omnipotence/omniscience/omnipresence, problem solved

Originally posted by Parmaniac
He doesn't even need to. Beatboks fails to realise that bascially all of his examples require prep(time) and outside resources that's not what the thread asks for. I don't need omniscience to fire the UN towards Galactus. If you're omnipotent you can just blink someone out of existence while having and omniprotective forcefield around you.

If we have 2 clones with no powers or equipment that are exactly the same and somehow give one of them omniscience and the other omnipotence and place them in a vs battle. The omnipotent will win ∞/10.

Omniscience means you have unlimited prep. If your "all knowing" that knowledge includes everything that will ever happen. It means you knew about the fight as long before it transpires as you've had omniscience.

So then only time the omniscient doesn't have prep is if for some reason both participants only received omniscience and omnipotence at the start of the battle (or the Omniscient did). If both recieved them just before the fight than you have the fact that the omnipotent doesn't actually know how to use their power (Brice Almighty), which might make him even easier manipulated by the Omniscient.

The nature of omniscience is that you always knew this moment was going to happen and how it was going to play out from the moment you had omniscience. You always knew exactly what could affect the outcome and how it would affect it. Are hou suggesting they did nothing?

How many times in fiction has some super need pulled out a plot device win with some device they had planned for just such an occasion without prep? Remember now we are talking about a fictional Omniscient. One who has always known EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why can't the omnipotent one give himself omniscience? I mean, you don't have to be a genius to do so.

Or time travel back to the past, and give himself omniscience whilst simultaneously taking away the omniscient one's knowledge? Like, just wish that he never had omniscience ever, retroactively into the past.

So you've proven the omnipotent needed omniscience to beat an Omniscient, or to remove the omniscience from the Omniscient.

So The only ways the Omniscient looses is if he's

1. No longer Omniscient
2. Faces an omnipotent who has omniscience.

So it's now a battle between an omnipotent and a normal guy, and therefore not the topic of discussion

Originally posted by beatboks
So you've proven the omnipotent needed omniscience to beat an Omniscient, or to remove the omniscience from the Omniscient.

So The only ways the Omniscient looses is if he's

1. No longer Omniscient
2. Faces an omnipotent who has omniscience.

So it's now a battle between an omnipotent and a normal guy, and therefore not the topic of discussion

We can choose to argue with the new stips in this thread or create another.

Originally posted by h1a8
Then state the stips as the Omnipotent will choose not to grant himself Omniscience and choose not to remove Omniscience from the opponent.

We can choose to argue with the new stips in this thread or create another.

The stips were already stated by the OP.
He stated an omnipotent without Omniscience vs Omniscience and asked which would be more useful.

The president of the United States has absolute power in the US. Someone who knows where all his skeletons are buried has a means of controlling that power. The right Knowledge is more useful than power because it allows you to control the power. All knowledge means you have all the right knowledge to control every power. Imagine an omnipotent knowing the dirty little secrets of every world leader on the planet. Every little thing they want to keep quite.

Imagine that samenperson knowing every exploitable secret from everyone alive and more.

Originally posted by beatboks
So you've proven the omnipotent needed omniscience to beat an Omniscient, or to remove the omniscience from the Omniscient.

So The only ways the Omniscient looses is if he's

1. No longer Omniscient
2. Faces an omnipotent who has omniscience.

So it's now a battle between an omnipotent and a normal guy, and therefore not the topic of discussion

But the omnipotent guy can do..... anything he wants. Including removing omniscience from his opponent, or giving himself omniscience.

If you want to restrict him, that shows the omnipotent is the better choice in a battle, as he needs to be handicapped to give the omniscient a chance.

Moreover, your tactics still assumes ability to back the knowledge up. He could know tomorrow's winning lottery numbers - useless if he lives 300 miles from the closest lottery shop and lacks internet etc. A specific example sure, but it's just to illustrate our point.

Originally posted by beatboks
The stips were already stated by the OP.
He stated an omnipotent without Omniscience vs Omniscience and asked which would be more useful.

The president of the United States has absolute power in the US. Someone who knows where all his skeletons are buried has a means of controlling that power. The right Knowledge is more useful than power because it allows you to control the power. All knowledge means you have all the right knowledge to control every power. Imagine an omnipotent knowing the dirty little secrets of every world leader on the planet. Every little thing they want to keep quite.

Imagine that samenperson knowing every exploitable secret from everyone alive and more.

OP doesn't say he can't remove it. Not does it state any prep time/prep resources, which you added yourself.

Match starts, the omnipotent guy just wishes that all the omniscient guy's plans stop working (a la Longshot).

Or he doesn't even need to remove it. Just wish that the omniscient has advanced dementia/Alzheimer's (so can't remember his knowledge, only that he knows he should know things - true torture).

Or wishes he's in a deep coma, unable to do anything or interact with anyone (and has always been in one since birth). Trapped in his own body, with all the knowledge of the universe.

Omniscient can transcend the moment so that any power used would turn against omnipotent. Caught in the act.

Originally posted by beatboks
Omniscience means you have unlimited prep. If your "all knowing" that knowledge includes everything that will ever happen. It means you knew about the fight as long before it transpires as you've had omniscience.

Originally posted by LordGod
In a forum fight, what would be more useful?

Please explain to me how anyone is supposed to defeat someone who can erase you from existence with a mere thought. While the other might know everything that is, was and will happen, it won't save him from his fate.

wtf is the argument here?

an omniscient guy might know how to cure cancer. but they'd still need a lab, resources, supplies, funding, time, etc. to create the cure. then a way to distribute it to the population. knowledge alone doesnt give them the ability to create and alter scenarios just by willing it so.

whereas the omnipotent guy can just think "no cancer exists", and bam, everyone is cured instantly. he can do absolutely anything just by willing it so.

why is this so hard for people to understand?

The genie 🧞‍♂️ put in its bottle can be done ✔️ with Omniscience.

With enough prep it's possible the omniscient can become omnipotent.
Or at least beat the omnipotent.

Note: You guys were giving tactics for the omnipotent. The fact is that many people wouldn't think of those tactics. It all depends on WHO is omnipotent.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
wtf is the argument here?

an omniscient guy might know how to cure cancer. but they'd still need a lab, resources, supplies, funding, time, etc. to create the cure. then a way to distribute it to the population. knowledge alone doesnt give them the ability to create and alter scenarios just by willing it so.

whereas the omnipotent guy can just think "no cancer exists", and bam, everyone is cured instantly. he can do absolutely anything just by willing it so.

why is this so hard for people to understand?

In that case the omnipotent guy lacks the knowledge to walk. I mean, if the omniscient guy lacks power, which could be to lift something as light as a pencil, then the omnipotent guy has less intelligence than a gerbil. If we're looking at it the way that you are.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
No it doesn't because prep requires time, even if you knew how to make kryptonite (from the start to the end without having to check anything) in a lab to take out Superman, you'd still need a lab + time to create kryptonite. This is not a scenario this is a vs. thread. None of that is covered by omniscience.

Please explain to me how anyone is supposed to defeat someone who can erase you from existence with a mere thought. While the other might know everything that is, was and will happen, it won't save him from his fate.

Wouldn't that be the omniscient guy? Take some time to think about it. Knowledge is power and absolute knowledge is absolute power.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
No it doesn't because prep requires time, even if you knew how to make kryptonite (from the start to the end without having to check anything) in a lab to take out Superman, you'd still need a lab + time to create kryptonite. This is not a scenario this is a vs. thread. None of that is covered by omniscience.

Please explain to me how anyone is supposed to defeat someone who can erase you from existence with a mere thought. While the other might know everything that is, was and will happen, it won't save him from his fate.

Why are you lot assuming prep time? OP doesn't say there is any.