Omnipotence vs. Omniscience

Originally posted by Stoic
Wouldn't that be the omniscient guy? Take some time to think about it. Knowledge is power and absolute knowledge is absolute power.

Stoic = Littlefinger

DarkSaint = Cersei

cersei is like my mom, complete ****ing psycho

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP doesn't say he can't remove it. Not does it state any prep time/prep resources, which you added yourself.

Match starts, the omnipotent guy just wishes that all the omniscient guy's plans stop working (a la Longshot).

Or he doesn't even need to remove it. Just wish that the omniscient has advanced dementia/Alzheimer's (so can't remember his knowledge, only that he knows he should know things - true torture).

Or wishes he's in a deep coma, unable to do anything or interact with anyone (and has always been in one since birth). Trapped in his own body, with all the knowledge of the universe.

Removing it before the battle means he doesn't have Omniscience and breaks OP stips.

For someone with Omniscience you would have to stipulate no prep was used, not the other way around. How could an omniscient not to be prepared for what they know is coming and always have?

Dementia/alzheimers, coma since birth are all also removing it since by your own discretion they either can't remember their knowledge (so not all knowing) or don't have conscious thought.

Your essentially proving my argument with every win scenario you present.

The thread is asking which is more useful if you don't have the other.
Without any other power Omniscience still allows you to control and manipulate those with any level of power. That makes it more useful.

Conversely omnipotence without Omniscience, would you even know how best to use it? Not knowing the ramifications of doing something in advance might mean doing something that achieves the opposite of your goal, or has a side effect you don't want.

Ironically while being the most useful, it would also be the worst one of the two to have. Imagine how dull existence would be if you already knew the outcome of everything. Surprises are most of the fun in life.

You would probably end up in a severe depression. Or entirely emotionless.

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case the omnipotent guy lacks the knowledge to walk. I mean, if the omniscient guy lacks power, which could be to lift something as light as a pencil, then the omnipotent guy has less intelligence than a gerbil. If we're looking at it the way that you are.

Originally posted by beatboks
Removing it before the battle means he doesn't have Omniscience and breaks OP stips.

For someone with Omniscience you would have to stipulate no prep was used, not the other way around. How could an omniscient not to be prepared for what they know is coming and always have?

Dementia/alzheimers, coma since birth are all also removing it since by your own discretion they either can't remember their knowledge (so not all knowing) or don't have conscious thought.

Your essentially proving my argument with every win scenario you present.

The thread is asking which is more useful if you don't have the other.
Without any other power Omniscience still allows you to control and manipulate those with any level of power. That makes it more useful.

Conversely omnipotence without Omniscience, would you even know how best to use it? Not knowing the ramifications of doing something in advance might mean doing something that achieves the opposite of your goal, or has a side effect you don't want.

I believe that with Omniscience one can become omnipotent if it is possible to achieve it by thought (like Lucy).

Lastly the intelligence of the omnipotent isn't suggested.
The tactics members here are suggesting are things many people wouldn't think of on the onset of a battle (even wishing someone out of existence).
What if the omniscient tricks the omnipotent? Say or do something that is guaranteed to distract them in order to beat them?

Originally posted by beatboks
Removing it before the battle means he doesn't have Omniscience and breaks OP stips.

For someone with Omniscience you would have to stipulate no prep was used, not the other way around. How could an omniscient not to be prepared for what they know is coming and always have?

Dementia/alzheimers, coma since birth are all also removing it since by your own discretion they either can't remember their knowledge (so not all knowing) or don't have conscious thought.

Your essentially proving my argument with every win scenario you present.

The thread is asking which is more useful if you don't have the other.
Without any other power Omniscience still allows you to control and manipulate those with any level of power. That makes it more useful.

Conversely omnipotence without Omniscience, would you even know how best to use it? Not knowing the ramifications of doing something in advance might mean doing something that achieves the opposite of your goal, or has a side effect you don't want.

OP doesn't have prep. You break it with your addition of it, proving my point that it's useless.

You would admit if the omniscient knows how to beat the omnipotent that that is right?

Just to clarify my intent;

In this thread there is no prep or extra resources of any kind. It's just one person who has fully mastered omniscience, and another person who has fully mastered omnipotence.

The only stipulation is that the omnipotent person cannot will themself to become omniscient here.

Originally posted by LordGod
Just to clarify my intent;

In this thread there is no prep or extra resources of any kind. It's just one person who has fully mastered omniscience, and another person who has fully mastered omnipotence.

The only stipulation is that the omnipotent person cannot will themself to become omniscient here.

The omniscient can distract or trick the omnipotent at the start of the bell.
This gives the omniscient a chance to beat the omnipotent.

Also, in some fictional universes an omniscient (or less than that) can become omnipotent with a mere thought. If that is theoretically possible then the omniscient becomes a better omnipotent.

Forum rules also suggest that planning (thinking) before the bell is allowed.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Would what be the omniscient guy?

The omniscient is omnipotent by proxy. They don't need prep, because they already know.

Originally posted by h1a8
The omniscient can distract or trick the omnipotent at the start of the bell.
This gives the omniscient a chance to beat the omnipotent.

Also, in some fictional universes an omniscient (or less than that) can become omnipotent with a mere thought. If that is theoretically possible then the omniscient becomes a better omnipotent.

Forum rules also suggest that planning (thinking) before the bell is allowed.

That's what I'm saying.

Originally posted by LordGod
Just to clarify my intent;

In this thread there is no prep or extra resources of any kind. It's just one person who has fully mastered omniscience, and another person who has fully mastered omnipotence.

The only stipulation is that the omnipotent person cannot will themself to become omniscient here.

It wouldn't matter if the omnipotent guy willed themselves to be omniscient, the omniscient guy would be able to do the same in reverse. This is a stalemate.

It's like asking what's heavier, a pound of feathers, or a pound of lead. Thinking is a verb as we all know. Which one of these guys would likely be able to perform that action the fastest becomes a factor.

However, you could never be omnipotent without also being omniscient. See what I mean?

Originally posted by LordGod
Just to clarify my intent;

In this thread there is no prep or extra resources of any kind. It's just one person who has fully mastered omniscience, and another person who has fully mastered omnipotence.

The only stipulation is that the omnipotent person cannot will themself to become omniscient here.

So match starts, one guy opens his mouth to say something (Martha! Her name is Martha!!) And the other guy thinks 'no more omniscient'.

Tricky. Most tricky.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
You would probably end up in a severe depression. Or entirely emotionless.

So, just like in real life? 😂

I don't understand why people would assume that the omniscient guy can just will themselves into becoming omnipotent, when they have no extra powers of any kind -- they *only* have knowledge. It doesn't matter if they know all that is... If something is impossible, they cannot make it possible just by willing it so.

The omnipotent guy is not limited in such a way.

Depends on the metaphysics of the universe in question, and also on the exact details of how the omnipotent dude is limited in his mental abilities. A true omnipotent would of course have infinite mental abilities as well but for the purposes of this thread that seems not to be the case.

For example, depending on such details, the omniscient guy might simply invoke Anti-Life Equation to subjugate the mind of the omnipotent dude.

The intent of this thread seems to be that the omnipotent guy has full mastery of his powers, but lacks true omniscience(paradoxical as that is.)

I'm genuinely curious how people think the all-knowing(but otherwise powerless) guy can defend against:
-The omnipotent guy turning off his omniscience.
-The omnipotent guy dumping him into a star.
-The omnipotent guy turning him into salt.
-The omnipotent guy exploding his internal organs.
-The omnipotent guy just not allowing anything he does to succeed.

Each(or all) of which can be accomplished with a gesture. Sure, the omniscient guy might know all of that is going to happen... But how does he prevent/counter any of it?