Originally posted by Delta1938
Too strong for the skill gap to be compensated based on what has been shown for Hercules.
And that is where we disagree. If a combatant can hurt their opponent they can win.
Let’s get back to good old Count Nefaria.
Count Nefaria has a combat score of 3, which is what he ranks in at in battle while using all of his abilities. Take note of the While using all abilities.
Rated 3, no more no less while under optimal conditions, and again while no nerfs are placed upon him.
If we took away 3 of those abilities, which are speed, flight, and laser vision, would this diminish his combat performance against a slower, -slightly weaker opponent that can not defend against his eye blasts?
Without the Flash’s speed, is he as dangerous? If we were to reduce the Flash’s speed to Hercules level, would he be as dangerous?
If we reduced Superman’s speed to Hercules level, took away his eye blasts, freeze breath, and his ability to fly, would he, or would he not be in for a world of trouble if he fought himself without losing the use of those abilities?
In this case, Count Nefaria has had his speed reduced to that of Hercules, he has lost his laser vision, and his ability to fly. Does that reduce his combat performance if we were to place him in a battle against another Count Nefaria that has his full speed, flight, and eye lasers?
We know that Hercules can hurt him, has a considerable skill edge in terms of actual technical fighting knowledge, and is not averse to using fouls. Most people would automatically believe that Hercules would win. If Hercules could not hurt Count Nefaria, I’d never pick Hercules to win. My response is that it would be a good fight, but Hercules would eventually lose do to eventually being tagged by a guy that he did not have the power to hurt.
The strength gap isn’t that great in this case though. Why? Because we know that Hercules can actually hurt him.
Originally posted by Stoic
Show me iwhere in his history that it specifically states that he was ever trained in combat. As stated, the very character says that he had none, which is the reason for gaining those powers. It was his cheat code to achieve world domination you dishonest idiot.Even a flipping moron would understand that he uses speed to get a drop on his opponent, he lives in the future while in combat against the opponents that he has been in battle with. This gives him an edge idiot. Taken away, or dropped down in speed becomes a hit on his overall combat performance, but your so filled with bullshit, and dishonesty, that you believe you’ve found angle to exploit.
You’re wrong. Gladiator spelled it out on panel when he defeated Hyperion who had less combat knowledge that he does. You and your lying teammate Delta can’t find one citation detailing Count Nefaria ever learning to actually fight before gaining powers that again he wasn’t born with.
If I gave a guy that never fought before super speed, super strength, super durability, super laser vision, and super flight speed, he wouldn’t need to know how to fight. General Ross is a trained soldier, trained to kill with his bare hands, which is why he killed the Abomination, and easily defeated Savage Hulk on panel.
You pretend as if your flimsy story holds up under the scrutiny placed upon your inability to find any solid evidence supporting the notion that if you took away Nefaria’s powers that he’d be able to defeat Jimmy Olsen if they were the same age.
What relevance to the OP does you flimsy dishonest argument address?
Fighting Skills?
Count Nefaria is rated a 3, because of his powers. If you remove speed, flight, ocular assault, he obviously takes a combat effectiveness hit.
Idiot.
It looks like this is the first post where Stoic starts asserting that Nefaria has lost his flight per OP, and this was on page 21.
I don't think Whirly ever mentioned that, and he could certainly still fly in the comics, at least as recently as his Moon Knight appearance.
Stoic, is this another instance of you just... making stuff up?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Stoic, in addition to Smurphs question, where does it say combat rating????
I explained the use of the term. I am using combat rating interchangeably with Fighting skill, which includes all powers, and skillsbeing used during battle. Pretty sure I mentioned that.
Originally posted by Smurph
It looks like this is the first post where Stoic starts asserting that Nefaria has lost his flight per OP, and this was on page 21.I don't think Whirly ever mentioned that, and he could certainly still fly in the comics, at least as recently as his Moon Knight appearance.
Stoic, is this another instance of you just... making stuff up?
Wait a sec, are you saying that Nefaria wouldn’t be able to defeat Count Nefaria in a H2H battle alone using his strength, durability, and skill? I was under the impression that the OP only wanted this to be a match of skill?
Looks like you didn’t answer the questions that I posted. Seems like the dishonesty is in full swing with you and your teammates. Can’t answer the questions huh? Something to hide? Which questions you ask? The ones below.
Originally posted by Stoic
And that is where we disagree. If a combatant can hurt their opponent they can win.Let’s get back to good old Count Nefaria.
Count Nefaria has a combat score of 3, which is what he ranks in at in battle while using all of his abilities. Take note of the While using all abilities.
Rated 3, no more no less while under optimal conditions, and again while no nerfs are placed upon him.
If we took away 3 of those abilities, which are speed, flight, and laser vision, would this diminish his combat performance against a slower, -slightly weaker opponent that can not defend against his eye blasts?
Without the Flash’s speed, is he as dangerous? If we were to reduce the Flash’s speed to Hercules level, would he be as dangerous?
If we reduced Superman’s speed to Hercules level, took away his eye blasts, freeze breath, and his ability to fly, would he, or would he not be in for a world of trouble if he fought himself without losing the use of those abilities?
In this case, Count Nefaria has had his speed reduced to that of Hercules, he has lost his laser vision, and his ability to fly. Does that reduce his combat performance if we were to place him in a battle against another Count Nefaria that has his full speed, flight, and eye lasers?
We know that Hercules can hurt him, has a considerable skill edge in terms of actual technical fighting knowledge, and is not averse to using fouls. Most people would automatically believe that Hercules would win. If Hercules could not hurt Count Nefaria, I’d never pick Hercules to win. My response is that it would be a good fight, but Hercules would eventually lose do to eventually being tagged by a guy that he did not have the power to hurt.
The strength gap isn’t that great in this case though. Why? Because we know that Hercules can actually hurt him.
Originally posted by Stoic
My post above has an error. People seem to be worried that if Nefaria fought Hercules H2H only using only his strength, durability, Hercules level speed, and combat knowledge that he’d get shit-kicked? If not, why does he need flight? Simple H2H at Hercules’ speed.
It's to test Herc's skills only. Read the OP.
Nefaria gets every crutch he can get. If the master warrior of Olympus can't use his skills to overcome the flight and strength advantages, then..... He loses.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You keep dodging these questions. For the.... Third time.
Count Nefaria without flight, speed, and laser vision would not have a 3 in fighting skills. Those skills are a culmination of what he brings along with him while in battle. Flight, super speed, laser vision, durability, freeze breath. Take those away, and he would be hard pressed to defeat Jimmy Olsen. You want to know why? Because he never once took a self defense class in the entire history of the character. Shit, he may not have even even gone to the gym for a workout. Actually, we know that he didn’t even do that.
If he had, you wouldn’t be dragging on with your bullshit. Move along, or show me one citing that states his formal training. When you bring up Wolverine’s history, Captain America’s history, Hercules’ history, they all have formal training. Count Nefaria has none.
Now perhaps you’ll answer my question.
Originally posted by Stoic
And that is where we disagree. If a combatant can hurt their opponent they can win.Let’s get back to good old Count Nefaria.
Count Nefaria has a combat score of 3, which is what he ranks in at in battle while using all of his abilities. Take note of the While using all abilities.
Rated 3, no more no less while under optimal conditions, and again while no nerfs are placed upon him.
If we took away 3 of those abilities, which are speed, flight, and laser vision, would this diminish his combat performance against a slower, -slightly weaker opponent that can not defend against his eye blasts?
Without the Flash’s speed, is he as dangerous? If we were to reduce the Flash’s speed to Hercules level, would he be as dangerous?
If we reduced Superman’s speed to Hercules level, took away his eye blasts, freeze breath, and his ability to fly, would he, or would he not be in for a world of trouble if he fought himself without losing the use of those abilities?
In this case, Count Nefaria has had his speed reduced to that of Hercules, he has lost his laser vision, and his ability to fly. Does that reduce his combat performance if we were to place him in a battle against another Count Nefaria that has his full speed, flight, and eye lasers?
We know that Hercules can hurt him, has a considerable skill edge in terms of actual technical fighting knowledge, and is not averse to using fouls. Most people would automatically believe that Hercules would win. If Hercules could not hurt Count Nefaria, I’d never pick Hercules to win. My response is that it would be a good fight, but Hercules would eventually lose do to eventually being tagged by a guy that he did not have the power to hurt.
The strength gap isn’t that great in this case though. Why? Because we know that Hercules can actually hurt him.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's to test Herc's skills only. Read the OP.Nefaria gets every crutch he can get. If the master warrior of Olympus can't use his skills to overcome the flight and strength advantages, then..... He loses.
So he needs more than what Hercules brings to the table to win then?