Originally posted by Stoic
Herc destroys him. He doesn't know how to fight. You should test it out some time. Go up to a boxer and fight them. See what the results will be.
Fail. I know how to fight, I would be fine. You have shown nothing to back Hercules has the skill to compensate for the strength gap and just argue he's skilled enough and Nefaria had speed against Thor, both circular arguments. He just showed to be way stronger against Thor.
What strength gap? Thor hurt him which is enough to let us know that Count Neverhadafight, would be destroyed. Anyone that actually knew how to fight would know this. Strength is meaningless if you don't actually know how to fight. In other words if I had picked Nefaria, you'd have picked Herc, who is the obvious winner here
Originally posted by Stoic
What strength gap? Thor hurt him which is enough to let us know that Count Neverhadafight, would be destroyed. Anyone that actually knew how to fight would know this. Strength is meaningless if you don't actually know how to fight. In other words if I had picked Nefaria, you'd have picked Herc, who is the obvious winner here
Originally posted by Stoic
The scan that I posted said everything needed. Nefaria is a muscle boy with no prior combat experience. Only the ignorant would ignore that.
I already covered this showing Nefaria lacked confidence initially and it seemed to effect his powers. Whether you're ignoring this or failing to comprehend it, you're still wrong. I don't know how you can ask "what strength gap?" When Nefaria borderline KOed Thor with a backhand.
And the guy who tells me to fight a boxer and see how that goes and says "anyone that actually knew how to fight" is saying strength is meaningless if you don't know how to fight is apparently unaware of weight classes.
Either put up or shut up. Show Hercules' supposedly great skill to overcome what Nefaria did to Thor, or you have nothing.
Originally posted by Stoic
Lacked confidence because of inexperience. Herc doesn't have that problem unless you're arguing that Hercules would be unable to harm Nefaria, which would be incorrect since Thor was able to harm him.
Originally posted by Stoic
Put up or shut up? You first. None of your scans prove a thing. He is an inexperienced fighter against a pro. No speed advantage. Just muscle boy vs his destroyer. You obviously have no idea how to fight.
Yes, put up or shut up. I already posted the scans showing he did better as the fight went on. And the strength advantage he had. You needing glasses or just lying doesn't change it. I can quote it again if it's so difficult for you to understand. All you do is say Hercules is such a great fighter and focus on the very beginning while ignoring everything else. You also assume because he has speed that's why he had the advantage. You argue a lot of X having speed solely because he fought Y. All you're doing is looking stupid.
You already posted bullshit. Nefaria has no combat experience in comparison to a seasoned warrior like Hercules. At full power he would win, but with these nerfs he gets schooled. Of course you'd love to ignore this very important fact, but that's on you. Combat ability is very much a reason to make a case against Liberace with super powers. We saw what Hercules did to Sentry. He ended that with one shot.
You still have yet to acknowledge Thor hurting Nefaria with his bare fists, which shoots down the idea that he's too strong for Hercules to hurt. Then again, arguing combat with a non fighter like you is pointless, because you'll attempt to ignore experience.
Originally posted by h1a8He certainly hurt skilled fighters like Capt. America, Simon and Tony, I think Herc can give him some moments but Herc is not winning this.
Nefaria was doing farely well combat wise. He was landing hits on so called skilled opponents. I see him definitely landing some hits on Hercules.
Originally posted by Smurph
Didn't he grab She Hulk by the neck mid-brawl? While he was prone? While she had a team backing her up?This narrative of Hercules using skill for a good ol combo-to-KO is standing on fan hype, but not logic or comics
He had a speed advantage and strength advantage, which gave him leverage to do that to the She Hulk. In this case Nefaria is limited to Hercules speed, and has no long range advantages.
Since he has zero combat history prior to gaining his newfound abilities no one can claim that he actually knows how to fight, because he didn’t.
We know this by delving deeper into his past and taking note of his words which were the very reasons why he obtained his powers.
Nefaria leans on his powers to dominate those that he has powerful advantages over such as speed, durability, and long range advantages.
He is not immune to Thor level strength, and the only reason that he escaped being brutalized by Thor was his durability and speed. His durability allowed him to snap out of having his bell continuously rung by Thor, in which we see him palm the hammer strike using speed.
If it didn’t hurt, do you think that he would have stopped Thor from continuously hitting him? And he was much faster than Thor as well, but still managed to nearly wind up in trouble. He has no speed advantage here.
We even see in the scan that I presented that Thor’s level of strength is able to harm him. Will you deny this? How would he escape the submissions like arm-bars, suplexes, gut wrenches, body slams, knees to balls, etc?
Did you want to ignore that?
Then you have Hercules, an Avenger, or a super police officer that has created his own style of combat, trained further while working with Captain America and the Avengers, was a Champion, has been in countless wars, and was able to easily turn the tables on Sentry, another character that really has basic combat knowledge, but is never tested until he runs into a character on his level with greater combat experience and is able to match his speed.
Nefaria in this case is just a muscle boy. He dressed like Liberace before ever putting on a cape and tights. The jig is up for this guy.
Hercules vs Count Liberace with super strength is what this truly boils down to. Prove me wrong.
You believe it that Nefaria wins, is the same as saying that a street fighter would defeat a seasoned wrestler with great boxing skills. Why don’t you look up how dominant wrestling is as a martial art.
Originally posted by Stoic
He had a speed advantage and strength advantage, which gave him leverage to do that to the She Hulk. In this case Nefaria is limited to Hercules speed, and has no long range advantages.Since he has zero combat history prior to gaining his newfound abilities no one can claim that he actually knows how to fight, because he didn’t.
We know this by delving deeper into his past and taking note of his words which were the very reasons why he obtained his powers.
Nefaria leans on his powers to dominate those that he has powerful advantages over such as speed, durability, and long range advantages.
He is not immune to Thor level strength, and the only reason that he escaped being brutalized by Thor was his durability and speed. His durability allowed him to snap out of having his bell continuously rung by Thor, in which we see him palm the hammer strike using speed.
If it didn’t hurt, do you think that he would have stopped Thor from continuously hitting him? And he was much faster than Thor as well, but still managed to nearly wind up in trouble. He has no speed advantage here.
We even see in the scan that I presented that Thor’s level of strength is able to harm him. Will you deny this? How would he escape the submissions like arm-bars, suplexes, gut wrenches, body slams, knees to balls, etc?
Did you want to ignore that?
Then you have Hercules, an Avenger, or a super police officer that has created his own style of combat, trained further while working with Captain America and the Avengers, was a Champion, has been in countless wars, and was able to easily turn the tables on Sentry, another character that really has basic combat knowledge, but is never tested until he runs into a character on his level with greater combat experience and is able to match his speed.
Nefaria in this case is just a muscle boy. He dressed like Liberace before ever putting on a cape and tights. The jig is up for this guy.
Hercules vs Count Liberace with super strength is what this truly boils down to. Prove me wrong.
You believe it that Nefaria wins, is the same as saying that a street fighter would defeat a seasoned wrestler with great boxing skills. Why don’t you look up how dominant wrestling is as a martial art.
Do you think Herc could replicate what he did against Sentry in a forum fight?
Originally posted by Stoic
You already posted bullshit. Nefaria has no combat experience in comparison to a seasoned warrior like Hercules. At full power he would win, but with these nerfs he gets schooled. Of course you'd love to ignore this very important fact, but that's on you. Combat ability is very much a reason to make a case against Liberace with super powers. We saw what Hercules did to Sentry. He ended that with one shot.You still have yet to acknowledge Thor hurting Nefaria with his bare fists, which shoots down the idea that he's too strong for Hercules to hurt. Then again, arguing combat with a non fighter like you is pointless, because you'll attempt to ignore experience.
No, I didn't post bullshit. Maybe you should get someone else to dumb it down for you. I'm supposed to be impressed by you throwing around meaningless phrases like "Herucles is a seasoned warrior" and blah blah blah? I'm ignoring nothing. You're either ignoring what I said or fail to have good enough reading comprehension. And 😆 at the Sentry fight like that's some top tier display of skill.
And here is why I say you look stupid and need someone to dumb it down foe you. You accuse me of not acknowledging Thor hurting Nefaria yet I go over how Nefaria improved as fights went on.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Did Nefaria get some kind of downgrade in power? Because he was way above Thor to the point skill is irrelevant unless you're Karate Kid level. Nefaria had to adjust at times, maybe his mindset effected his powers, could just be lack of confidence. As he would go from doing poorly to dominating when after he realized he was above them.Against Wonder Man he went from losing to winning in the same page(attacked once the page before).
Note he said he wasn't prepared due to inexperience.You think that means Hercules will take him before he can get used to it? Unless he had the downgrade I asked, I doubt it. His Thor fight went from this--
--to this--
Note how much Nefaria is talking about Mjolnir. Even if Hercules were slightly stronger(which your only argument is outdated), he doesn't have Mjolnir to compensate to any degree for the difference between him and Nefaria. Unless you're arguing he's KK level skill?
Even after being told the process is rapidly aging him and he'll die in two days--
--he treats Thor like this--
Not sure if the aging had an effect on him outside his confidence (as we see his performance was effected by it as he does better as the fights go on) but him dying in 2 days was a lie, as he would actually be effectively immortal.
But it took a combined effort from the Avengers to beat him in that state of mind, far more than Hercules can offer in raw power. So do you have evidence Nefaria got downgraded in power, or are you arguing his skill is KK level?
I mean, I posted the scan you're wanting and showed how things progressed. But I'm not acknowledging? So Wonder Man also initially treated Nefaria the way you're arguing, next we see Nefaria no selling Wonder Man. He went from being effected by Thor's punch to catching Mjolnir casually. He even backhanded Thor like an inferior when Nefaria started freaking out about his rapid aging. YOUR are the one failing to acknowledge that Nefaria would get better as the fight went one. Hell all your worthless "Hercules is a seasoned warrior" repeating, Thor is too, had Mjolnir which Nefaria was more concerned over, and still didn't win. You'd have to argue Hercules is a better fighter to the degree it would outweigh Mjolnir.
And your only other argument is Nefaria doesn't have speed here. Show me Nefaria using speed against Thor. Show me before you repeat your argument that he doesn't have it here.
Originally posted by Smurph
Didn't he grab She Hulk by the neck mid-brawl? While he was prone? While she had a team backing her up?This narrative of Hercules using skill for a good ol combo-to-KO is standing on fan hype, but not logic or comics
Wasn't Shulk also well below the likes of Herc and Thor at the time?
Black Reign Black Adam regularly one shot Power Girl, does that mean he'd have one shotted Superman or Captain Marvel?