Originally posted by Smurph
and yeah, this is a good questionThe way Stoic describes the fight, I think he sees it going like this, but more successful: https://imgur.io/a/H1WqnMU
Looked pretty successful to me.
Remember Herc thought of Hulk as a friend here. And Nef is not Hulk, he has neither the girth nor a proven strength advantage for a pec kick out.
Not to mention Herc can grapple in such a way to make it impossible, such as from behind.
Is it me or does Herc look better than Thor in h2h against Hulk?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I think that might be right, although Herc got 27? consecutive punches to Hulk's face and he wasn't really phased. Pretty great HF feat, that.
So there, Hulk is more successful because he has something that Nefaria does not have - a crazy HF. So yeah, based on that Herc can take Nefaria out.
Originally posted by Smurph
I think that might be right, although Herc got 27? consecutive punches to Hulk's face and he wasn't really phased. Pretty great HF feat, that.
As you say, Hulk has a HF.
Replace Nef with Hulk against the Avengers, and he'd simply shake off all the accumulated damage that eventually took Nef down.
Hercules has the power of immortality. The Count would lack the very knowledge to escape a submission. Herc is if fact a tad bit stronger than Thor. A battle between them pre All Father could have gone either way. Without the longe range advantages, and the speed advantage, which is actually like a time machine.
The concept of being able to move at speeds far greater than your opponent is a huge advantage loss that is immediately incurred upon Nefaria. Every defense that he once had is obliterated in that very moment that combat begins, and Hercules would so WTF own him because’ despite what is being imagined about how Hercules lacks the ability to hurt him it is immediately shot down by the fact that Thor was able to harm him. In comic book canon, Hercules is no joke on the battlefield. Who for example, who has absolutely destroyed him in comic book history.
You could make a list of characters that would defeat Hercules, with difficulty, and compare then to Count Neverhadafight, prior to the power up. The speed advantage is like having a time machine, we’ve all basically for the most part acknowledged that speed is often the game changer. Well when taken away, what exactly do you have remaining? Just a muscle boy that Hercules would definitely be sending to the Raft. The idea would make for a beast ass read, which would no doubt raise Herc’s stock.
Originally posted by Smurph
and yeah, this is a good questionThe way Stoic describes the fight, I think he sees it going like this, but more successful: https://imgur.io/a/H1WqnMU
He would not be able defend himself against a master of a successful style that he created. He has the strength to wear Nefaria out. The strongest man in the world who had training was eventually defeated by a professional fighter. With these guys though, things would be far explosive, and several suplexes at that level is most certainly going to ring his bell. This all also depends on if we are using Hercules at full strength who has near planetary level strength.
Again, walls of text but no actual proof (beyond... what I posted)
And the Hulk feat is fine, but still not him actually overcoming a strength gap with skill. "Closing the gap" vs "overcoming the gap" is the difference here.
For another example, mortal Hercules couldn't even combo-to-KO Phil Urich, an actual loser, who beat Herc dead to rights and was throttling him even though Herc disarmed him.
Originally posted by StoicUh-huh. I assume this is the master style at work.
He would not be able defend himself against a master of a successful style that he created. He has the strength to wear Nefaria out. The strongest man in the world who had training was eventually defeated by a professional fighter. With these guys though, things would be far explosive, and several suplexes at that level is most certainly going to ring his bell. This all also depends on if we are using Hercules at full strength who has near planetary level strength.
Is that pankration? mmm
Originally posted by Smurph😂
Uh-huh. I assume this is the master style at work.Is that pankration? mmm
In addition to all the other problems I've mentioned for Stoic, he's still arguing Hercules is stronger than Thor(even if only a little) because of the Handbooks and not the comics, when even the Handbooks and other official sources have long since put them both at Class 100 instead of Thor being placed at lifting 95 tons.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Yeah, here's the thing. I'm not inviting people to move the goalposts. Because I could post scans of Hercules' skill and I fully expect to be greeted with flippant denial that's the level of skill you were looking for.
You are assuming my argument.My point was that.....there were no scans of Herc's skill feats. Not Cap level, Punisher level, even Hawkeye level!!!!
You hardly post these days - a few days ago (weeks?) there was a thread asking for Herc's skill feats (not lip service). People are coming in here with that thread fresh in our minds....context, as always, matters.
So I don't think it's an unfair question given that I am granting you the assumption and premise that Count Nefaria's strength is superior to whatever ill-defined level you arbitrarily give him.
What level of skill would a superbrick like Hercules need to match or beat him? You tell me. Go ahead and declare it.
Originally posted by SmurphThat's not exactly my fault. None of those characters are in this thread, after all. Hercules is. So what level of skill does Hercules require to close the gap of Count Nefaria's superior strength? You've got some level in mind, so just say it.
Well, each of those characters has way, way more showings of skill overcoming a physical gap than Hercules has, so... again, not a helpful comparison for Hercules
Originally posted by ODG
Yeah, here's the thing. I'm not inviting people to move the goalposts. Because I could post scans of Hercules' skill and I fully expect to be greeted with flippant denial that's the level of skill you were looking for.So I don't think it's an unfair question given that I am granting you the assumption and premise that Count Nefaria's strength is superior to whatever ill-defined level you arbitrarily give him.
What level of skill would a superbrick like Hercules need to match or beat him? You tell me. Go ahead and declare it.