Originally posted by Astner
[B]It does not make sense to think that the Anti-Monitor could summon Anti-Matter Waves at the drop of a hat because he literally ha a Anti-Matter Cannon built when the Wave was stopped.
That was because Monitor had saved the remaining universes in a nether verse which stopped Anti Monitor from reaching them. The cannon was to breach the nether verse.
Originally posted by Astner
Right, but it wasn't exactly the universe-busting waves we saw in Crisis on Infinite Earths.
As for the antimatter cannon, from what I can recall now, it wasn't finished in the first place and Barry broke it before AM had a chance to use the cannon.
The reason AM tried to build it in the first place is because Monitor created a universe to escape AM's antimatter waves IIRC
So I think it's entirely possible that AM only tried to use antimatter cannon due to the fact the remaining universes were hosted in Monitor's personal universe, not necessarily mean AM used the machine to create antimatter waves that destroyed universes
Originally posted by abhilegend
There was no machine to destroy the positive matter universes, it was all Anti Monitor. The only machine he created to destroy the remaining 5 universes was in issue 8 and that was only because those universes were in a realm Anti Monitor couldn't get into.Read the story, again.
I did straight up misremember in regards to the last 5 universes being segregated away though. Somehow shit got jumbled up in my recollection of events so that I thought that the original machines he was using are what Flash destroyed, I forgot he actually ended up destroying most/all AMs base but was specifically focused on that Antimatter Cannon because the last 5 universes were hidden away
Originally posted by darthgoober
I did straight up misremember in regards to the last 5 universes being segregated away though. Somehow shit got jumbled up in my recollection of events so that I thought that the original machines he was using are what Flash destroyed, I forgot he actually ended up destroying most/all AMs base but was specifically focused on that Antimatter Cannon because the last 5 universes were hidden away
And during the original COIE, AM used machines in order to reduce the vibrational frequencies between the remaining universes, letting them occupy the same space to destroy them.
So apparently they shouldn't be the reason for creating universe-eating antimatter waves.
As it a)could affect the remaining universes which beyond antimatter walls, b)the purpose of the machines only described as to reduce the vibrational frequencies of the remaining universes
Supergirl broke it when she was fighting AM.
https://ibb.co/GPT2jNw
https://ibb.co/0Z65YyW
https://ibb.co/cX7RVRh
So it's entire possible the machines was just referring to one of tools AM used to destroy the remaining universes which beyond the reaches of antimatter waves.
Because basically, AM used three methods to get around the Netherverse.
First, AM used solar-powered machines to reduce the frequencies of the remaining universes, letting them occupy the same space and destroying each other. Supergirl broke these machines
And then, AM tried to build an antimatter cannon. Flash broke it.
Finally, AM was pissed enough so it absorbed the energy of Antimatter Universe, traveling to the dawn of time to change history
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Hmm, if you were thinking the scene is what I think it is. Then IIRC, in this story, the remaining universes were already brought into Monitor's Netherverse.
https://ibb.co/X3d5Sct
https://ibb.co/XDY0jf2
https://ibb.co/zZmHCnhAnd during the original COIE, AM used machines in order to reduce the vibrational frequencies between the remaining universes, letting them occupy the same space to destroy them.
So apparently they shouldn't be the reason for creating universe-eating antimatter waves.
As it a)could affect the remaining universes which beyond antimatter walls, b)the purpose of the machines only described as to reduce the vibrational frequencies of the remaining universesSupergirl broke it when she was fighting AM.
https://ibb.co/GPT2jNw
https://ibb.co/0Z65YyW
https://ibb.co/cX7RVRhSo it's entire possible the machines was just referring to one of tools AM used to destroy the remaining universes which beyond the reaches of antimatter waves.
Because basically, AM used three methods to get around the Netherverse.
First, AM used solar-powered machines to reduce the frequencies of the remaining universes, letting them occupy the same space and destroying each other. Supergirl broke these machines
And then, AM tried to build an antimatter cannon. Flash broke it.
Finally, AM was pissed enough so it absorbed the energy of Antimatter Universe, traveling to the dawn of time to change history
Originally posted by darthgooberLegends of the DCU: Crisis on Infinite Earths btw.
I don't think that's the issue I'm referring to, it had the Antimonitor and Psycho Pirate outright talking about it. Think the tie in was from the 90s, but I honestly can't remember for sure. But you may very well be right about other stuff coming out that said otherwise. Hell you may very well be right about it actually being part of that same story. I threw my hands up in disguise and gave up on making sense of COIE a long time ago. From the perspective of a typical comic fan it's absolutely awesome, but from the perspective of a super geek that wants things to make sense it's a Marvel vs DC level nightmare
That’s where you’ll find that scene, but I’m not sure you’ll prove what you’re trying to. Have at it though.
Originally posted by darthgoober
There's a flashback tie it to COIE(before they were down to the last 5 universes) that talks about him using machines to do the deed. I can't remember for the life of me what issue it was in, I mostly just remember AM gloating about how the heroes couldn't stop him and Psycho Pirate saying "but what if they destroy your machines". I used to have scans posted here on KMC but when I found those posts the scans I posted were totally absent (makes sense, it was something like 15 years ago).
Originally posted by darthgoober
I did straight up misremember in regards to the last 5 universes being segregated away though. Somehow shit got jumbled up in my recollection of events so that I thought that the original machines he was using are what Flash destroyed, I forgot he actually ended up destroying most/all AMs base but was specifically focused on that Antimatter Cannon because the last 5 universes were hidden away
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Legends-of-the-DCU-Crisis-on-Infinite-Earths/Full?id=145013
And even here, it was made clear that Anti Monitor is the one who has been destroying the universes.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I'd caution you against confusing KMC posters' fetish for PC Kryptonians for DC's.
Just to jump in on point #3: would it not just be an extension of DC's fetish for Kryptonians?
Originally posted by AstnerI'm too drunk to parse Anti-Monitor's form, but yeah.. let's go with this.
So why was the Anti-Monitor hurt by the fires of Sun...or a planet turned into a Sun? I mean that's how he lost most of his body. Superman only delivered the finishing blow.The Anti-Monitor had 4 forms if I recall correctly.
[list=1][*]Original Armor Form
[*]Updated Armor Form
[*]Anti-Matter Universe Absorbed
[*]Shadow Demons Absorbed[/list]Only #3 can be argued to be universal/multiversal in the original story imo.
Originally posted by Galan0071) His weakened state is your assertion. I'd rather stick to the comics.
1.) A theoretical 'peak' Monitor only appeared in a brief flashback, wherein he and AM fought to an absolute stalemate. In every other appearance during COIE-proper, he was weakened. Not sure why that in and of itself makes Monitor a sub-multiversal power..? Regardless, your opinion obviously isn't going to change, so there's no reason to continue arguing this point ad nauseam.2.) When did I "ignore" the use of more finite terminology within the source material? Shall I repost the numerous instances where I fully acknowledged such in this very thread? All you're doing is "bludgeoning me" with a point that I already agreed with from the very start... So gg, I guess?
In point of fact, you are the one who is evidently willing to ignore Alex's explicit "infinite universes" statement(also made within the source material), along with all of the other statements made about the pre-crisis multiverse's infinitude in various comics released over the years. But hey, if your opinion is that the pre-crisis multiverse only contained 1,000ish universes, and was not infinite, then run with it. I don't care either way. 👆
2) Fair enough. I was under the impression that you wouldn't acknowledge that COIE Anti-Monitor conquered/defeated/absorbed only thousands of universes. I have always been under the impression that AM's 'peak' was after he absorbed the anti-matter universe, which gave him enough power to return to the dawn of time in an effort to reforge creation. Is that incorrect?
I ain't ignoring anything. Just recognizing that despite Alex's lone character statement, the Anti-Monitor himself quantified how many universes he conquered/defeated/absorbed. You don't care though. 👆
Originally posted by DiesldudeNo, it does not necessarily contradict infinite universes. But cmon now. By the time that Supergirl confronted Anti-Monitor, there were only five (5) universes left. It only speak to how laughable COIE Anti-Monitor was if he was empowered by infinity minus 5 universes as opposed to only 995 universes.
the “thousand” universe doesn’t contradict infinite universes, it’s just that a thousand universe before the current one AM is trying to destroy, offered less resistance. Who know how much resistance was offered by the universe before these thousand?Also it was crises of infinite earth not crises of thousands earths. With that said no way Supergirl should have been able to ko AM under any circumstances, she ain’t no Superman.
Then again, neither outcome looks good. Which should lead all of us to recontextualize the personal power that COIE Anti-Monitor possessed as darthgoober and Astner are pointing out. Either you accept what COIE Anti-Monitor actually did or you just reverse-inflate Supergirl to multiversal+++ power.
Let's get real.
Originally posted by AstnerWhich is immediately contradicted only a few pages later:
The Anti-Monitor was only ever powered by his own universe, and this was when he was at his most powerful.https://i.imgur.com/e0PVtT1.jpg
- Crisis on Infinite Earths #10
Originally posted by MrMindSee above. COIE Anti-Monitor expended the energies he absorbed from his antimatter universe going back to the time before time.
and anti-matter universe was as big and powerful as the entire dc multiverse at that timewhich makes COIE AM a multiversal powerhouse
Makes sense given that Spectre and the magicians were able to oppose COIE Anti-Monitor at this point (if you're not trying to suck Spectre's balls, anyway).
