Originally posted by Astner
To be fair, neither Heat Vision and his Ice Breath would faze Silver Surfer or Thor, both of whom have withstood more extreme temperatures. The only one in this fight that would succumb to either (particularly Heat Vision) would be J'onn, and he's on Superman's team.
Originally posted by h1a8
So Astner trolls and states writer's intent for absolute zero is not actually absolute zero
Originally posted by h1a8
Then he trolls and states that WW and Bizarro got frozen by some 2.5 Mohs ice (which all ice isn't) and ignores the fact that ice is just a byproduct of them being frozen Directly. And ignores writer's intent that the freeze breath is powerful enough to hold WW and Bizarro.
If you want to discuss a particular feat, then post it. I know you won't, because the feats you refer to occur under atmospheric conditions. The fact that it incapacitated Bizarro or Wonder Woman doesn't change the fact that it's ice, it just means that Bizarro and Wonder Women weren't particularly impressive in those stories.
Originally posted by h1a8
And ignores evidence of Superman's hv showing to being above a trillion degrees.
Originally posted by Astner
It's funny how I ask for a "paragraph and story," and all I get is a low-res cropped image. What are you hiding? Do you even know what comic this is from? I cite the comics I reference, why can't you?
The scan I posted in the first page, It comes from Adventures of Superman 565
Originally posted by Astner
What? How does this affect anything? The phrases "Absolute Zero," and "-459.67 F," are either used colloquially or formally. If they're used colloquially then they don't matter. If they're used formally you have to deal with the context of approximations and significant figures.It's also weird how you insist on pushing this as a non-quantifiable feat. Because if it isn't quantifiable then you can't derive any values for it. It just goes into the trash pile of "writers failing to grasp physics." Like when Kyle Rayner thought splitting a random atom would cause a nuclear explosion. We're not re-envisioning the DC Universe to account for stupid shit like that.
Originally posted by Astner
That's funny, because Kal-El wasn't introduced until Justice League of America (1960) #73, which was published in 1969, eight years after Superman (1939) #154.
You know, Thor has almost died falling into lava, several times right? Knocked out by an avalanche?
Anyway, Superman has his heat vision practically drew away Blackrock stone in fear of the heat even through his shields.
And Blackrock stone was chilling in the sun for months.
Along with J'onn creates a heat pulse rivalling the birth of a sun.
Superman would practically incinerate Thor and melt Surfer in a puddle.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh ok, so it hurts him. So back to your original statement, Thor gets hurt by solar plasma, Superman can generate solar plasma. Glad we agree.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Now you're adding the fire demon? Where in Batman's explanation is any attribution given to the demon? Please point it out. What Batman DOES say, is that in effect, it is a microscopic supernova. It has the effect of one.]So yeah, temperature would be an effect, I reckon.
So I'll have to ask you to source the scene.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You are ALSO adding this ' endure for extended' periods of time, although, I see you are now walking back and acknowledging that I am correct, and that solar plasma temperatures hurt Thor. He has them open for a couple of panels before having to shut them and then gets called out by his mother.
Thor gets knocked out by an avalanche.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zNmqTGF-OAk/Vnp7_PrynRI/AAAAAAAAYno/Xoq5ymHpIqA/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg
Thor fears of his life falling into magma.
http://i.imgur.com/prLJUiw.jpg
😂
Originally posted by Smurph
Abhi, I think you linked to the same scan twice
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Huh? No, you initial post was saying "what paragraph in story are you referring to"
Not a paragraph and storyThe scan I posted in the first page, It comes from Adventures of Superman 565
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The same could be argued about the scans you used to put maximum limits for Superman's HV...when he was weakened, and we have the scans point out his HV is hotter than the limits you put here( solar plasma, off the charts heat degrees, millions of degrees etc)
Moreover, even if you don't want to be conservative here. Thor swam in solar plasma, with eyes open. So it's not really a feasible option.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
No, in Superman 113, it already mentioned the name Kal-El
https://ibb.co/QC69D6k
Originally posted by Smurph
Abhi, I think you linked to the same scan twice
Edit. Never-mind, the link in his new post clarifies the Blackrock feat is from from Superman Vol. 2 #218. But the other feat remains unsourced.
I'll check it out when I get home.
Originally posted by Astner
It's kind of interesting how you like to play with semantics like this to characterize the argument.I thought this scene was from JLA/JSA: Virtue and Vice, apparently it's not. Then again, this is why I'm telling you to source your scans. A request you never seem to comply with unless specifically asked.
So I'll have to ask you to source the scene.
"Getting hurt" and "enduring" are not mutually exclusive terms. Most people with a tattoo will admit to it hurting to get one, but they endured it nontheless.
But I specifically replied to your post about 'hurting', with a refutation that he would indeed be hurt. Which you now agree with, having been corrected by me. It's literally the crux of the entire argument we seem to be having, mainly driven by your ego and refusal to admit you're wrong.
Best you can say is that you were only referring to the core feat from Superman, as it now becomes clear you don't know the feat I posted.
As for the referencing? Sure I can post it. Or not. I'll give you a clue, though: two words, S and M.
Originally posted by Astner
Fair enough I'll check it out when I get home.Solar plasma is the stuff the Sun is made of, like Darksaint showed, it ranges from under 6,000 K to well over a million K. Which means that we go with the most conservative value (under 6,000), because we don't want to assume more than necessary.
Moreover, even if you don't want to be conservative here. Thor swam in solar plasma, with eyes open. So it's not really a feasible option.
Fair enough. Carver will have to clarify what he means with average versions then.
He also failed to reference the stories it's from.
Edit. Never-mind, the link in his new post clarifies the Blackrock feat is from from Superman Vol. 2 #218. [b]But the other feat remains unsourced.
I'll check it out when I get home. [/B]
You also forget that in its effect, it was a (microscopic) supernova. So you can't just assume the lowest boundary.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But I specifically replied to your post about 'hurting', with a refutation that he would indeed be hurt. Which you now agree with, having been corrected by me. It's literally the crux of the entire argument we seem to be having, mainly driven by your ego and refusal to admit you're wrong.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Best you can say is that you were only referring to the core feat from Superman, as it now becomes clear you don't know the feat I posted.As for the referencing? Sure I can post it. Or not. I'll give you a clue, though: two words, S and M.
So either you share the source for your evidence, or you concede the point.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You also forget that in its effect, it was a (microscopic) supernova. So you can't just assume the lowest boundary.
Imagine how much smoother our debates would go if you and Abhi sourced the scans you relied on. But for some reason you insist on dragging out the debates, hoping to turn them into a battles of attrition.
Originally posted by Astner
Fair enough I'll check it out when I get home.Solar plasma is the stuff the Sun is made of, like Darksaint showed, it ranges from under 6,000 K to well over a million K. Which means that we go with the most conservative value (under 6,000), because we don't want to assume more than necessary.
Moreover, even if you don't want to be conservative here. Thor swam in solar plasma, with eyes open. So it's not really a feasible option.
Fair enough. Carver will have to clarify what he means with average versions then.
He also failed to reference the stories it's from.
Edit. Never-mind, the link in his new post clarifies the Blackrock feat is from from Superman Vol. 2 #218. [b]But the other feat remains unsourced.
I'll check it out when I get home. [/B]
Originally posted by abhilegend
Mind you, even Valor who Superman beat black and blue oneshotted Unimaginable who literally causes suns to go supernova and drains them to gain his power.Unimaginable caused a sun to go supernova and drained its energy just two issues ago.
Confirmed in its profile entry.
And before you start, Superman defeated Valor while suffering from asphyxiation.
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/EclipsoDarknessWithin02a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/EclipsoDarknessWithin02b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/EclipsoDarknessWithin02c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/EclipsoDarknessWithin02d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/EclipsoDarknessWithin02e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/heroes/EclipsoDarknessWithin02f.jpg
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its from JLA: Scary Monsters. Here's another feat for you.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Scans are from Valor v1 7-8-10.And before you start, Superman defeated Valor while suffering from asphyxiation.
Originally posted by Astner
Why would this even matter? They're two different characters. This is like saying that Superman should have telepathic abilities because he beat up a guy who beat up Martian Manhunter.
Originally posted by Astner
It's a mini-series, the issue number is relevant here too.
Should I buy you the book too?
It's tangential to your main point, but as a side-note: It's interesting to see how you interpret possessed characters. Sometimes they're weaker and sometimes they're at their full strength. The only thing consistent with your interpretations seem to be that they conveniently align with whatever position you're arguing for.
Valor is a daxamite with identical powers to Superman, if Superman defeats him while he's at a disadvantage, it means Superman is more powerful than him. It's not rocket science.
Also Eclipso didn't weaken anyone, it was quite opposite actually.
Originally posted by Astner
Solar plasma is the stuff the Sun is made of, like Darksaint showed, it ranges from under 6,000 K to well over a million K. Which means that we go with the most conservative value (under 6,000), because we don't want to assume more than necessary.
But I think it's debatable, since even going by the conservative value, Thor can well be argued he will be hurt by it(which you seem agreed with)
And there are other tactics such as burning the air in opponent's lungs, which should also pose problems for them(at least, for Thor as far as I know)
https://ibb.co/vB8R8kv
etcetc
In short, I'm not saying HV/FB is a certain way of winning this fight. But it definitely should cause some problems to their opponents here
Originally posted by Astner
Fair enough, hurt was a bad choice of words on my part. My bad. So let's focus on what I actually meant rather than semantics. Why do you think solar plasma-temperatures would be an effective strategy against someone who's explicitly endured solar plasma temperatures for what was it...weeks?That's not how debating works. If you withhold the source for your evidence you don't get to use it, because it can't be verified. It could be non-canonical, it could be an edit of the page, and it could be refuted by the context, etc.
So either you share the source for your evidence, or you concede the point.
I'm still waiting for the citation.
Imagine how much smoother our debates would go if you and Abhi sourced the scans you relied on. But for some reason you insist on dragging out the debates, hoping to turn them into a battles of attrition.
He endured it for weeks...but not for extended periods of time. That's another mistake you made, where you're wrong. I can go to a swimming pool and dive in every day for weeks, staying underwater until my lungs are burning...doesn't mean I'm enduring being underwater for weeks.
I can hold my hand over a candle, until my hand starts to burn, every day for weeks.... doesn't mean I'm enduring it for weeks or that I can even hold my hand over a flame for minutes.
Nah, I can withold scans and reference them as I see fit. As you've amply shown, simply referencing means nothing if you don't actually know what you're talking about. But I DID reference them, if not explicitly - I gave you two words lol. Now, is it the nice clear reference and citation YOU want? Probably (lol) not. But is it A reference? Yes. A shitty one, to be sure, but it's one.
But yes, he created solar plasma with the effects of a (microscopic) supernova, with his HV, whilst Thor gets hurt by 'standard' (if there's such a term) solar plasma.
As for the reason for drawing it out? Maybe I'm bored, maybe I just don't like your misplaced arrogance, lol. I mean, look at this very thread:
Originally posted by Astner
Now you're cherry-picking, and poorly at that. It said solar plasma. It's the reaction caused by the interaction of the fire demon and Superman's Heat Vision (that reached the temperatures of solar plasma) that caused this "microscopic supernova" (which isn't a even real phenomena), yet you insist on associating it with specific properties of actual supernovae.
Look at you, getting all excited, and making assertions when you have zero idea what my scans are about. A carver might read your post and think hmmmm this Astner sure knows his comics and is great at calling this point out!!!
But you had zero idea, yet dived in (lol) with both feet first (hell, head first!) into asserting some fire demon was involved.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Should I buy you the book too?
Astner gets aroused by numbers. Seriously.
He wants you to say it, so he can get off. He is perfectly capable of finding the source himself after 17 years on this message board.
--
But there's also a really good chance he is exactly like Raymond Babbitt from Rain Man movie...
Originally posted by abhilegend
Should I buy you the book too?
This is something I do without being asked for this very reason. It saves the people I debate the trouble of asking for it, and having to await my reply.
The only reason someone would not do this is either:
[list=1][*]They don't know what comic they're referring to.
[*]They're trying to obstruct further analysis of the story.[/list]
Originally posted by abhilegend
Valor is a daxamite with identical powers to Superman, if Superman defeats him while he's at a disadvantage, it means Superman is more powerful than him. It's not rocket science.
In fact, I'm not sure why you'd need to rely on Valor's feats unless Superman distinctly lacked any comparable feat. Which given his extensive history isn't all that good.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Also Eclipso didn't weaken anyone, it was quite opposite actually.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
The point I don't agree is HV/FB wouldn't faze Silver Surfer or Thor. From my understanding, you're saying HV/FB wouldn't bother their.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And there are other tactics such as burning the air in opponent's lungs, which should also pose problems for them(at least, for Thor as far as I know)
https://ibb.co/vB8R8kv
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
In short, I'm not saying HV/FB is a certain way of winning this fight. But it definitely should cause some problems to their opponents here
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He endured it for weeks...but not for extended periods of time. That's another mistake you made, where you're wrong. I can go to a swimming pool and dive in every day for weeks, staying underwater until my lungs are burning...doesn't mean I'm enduring being underwater for weeks.
The rest of your argument is based off evidence which you've admittedly refused to source. So by the burden of the rejoinder you've conceded that point.
