Superman/Martian Manhunter vs Silver Surfer/Thor (average versions)

Originally posted by Astner

If Thor needs to breathe, he breathed solar plasma for weeks. Some heated air isn't going to accomplish much.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Shut up, carver:

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5477309-thor%20in%20space.jpg
2. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5477311-thor%20in%20space%20%282%29.jpg

1. https://tinyurl.com/hknxntd7

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5791555-5686209-destroyer%2Btrying%2Bto%2Bdrown%2Bthor.jpg

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5883438-guys%20thor%20is%20underwater-whaaaaaat.jpg
2. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5883439-thor%20underwater.jpg

1. https://tinyurl.com/6j9z6w9f
2. https://tinyurl.com/yvf7sx2s
3. https://tinyurl.com/3heyyj9v

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5938340-thor%20passes%20out%20underwater.jpg
2. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5938345-thor%20passes%20out%20underwater%20%282%29.jpg
3. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5938347-thor%20passes%20out%20underwater%20%283%29.jpg

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5938709-5484130-thor%2Bunderwater.jpg
2. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5938712-5484131-thor%2Bunderwater%2B%282%29.jpg

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/5945530-5557177-thor%27s%2Bbreathing%2Babilities.jpg

1. https://tinyurl.com/wjsfeca

1. https://tinyurl.com/exdpvvuy

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111137597/6057530-thor%20can%27t%20survive%20space.jpg

1. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11134/111341994/6238946-thor%20266-annual06-07.jpg
2. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11134/111341994/6238947-thor%20266-annual06-13.jpg

Originally posted by Astner
[B]I'm not sure why you're getting frustrated over the fact that I ask you to source your evidence. If you believe your evidence is reliable then you'd want to provide all the relevant details for the sake of transparency.

Because you want to have everything spoon-fed to you. I gave you the details of the feats with the comic details and you're still whining like a *****.

This is something I do without being asked for this very reason. It saves the people I debate the trouble of asking for it, and having to await my reply.

The only reason someone would not do this is either:
[list=1][*]They don't know what comic they're referring to.
[*]They're trying to obstruct further analysis of the story.[/list]

Knock yourself out. I gave you the books name, do your own research.

Daxamites are not Kryptonians, and they don't have identical powers and weaknesses.

Lolwut? They are literally discount Kryptonians (diluted DNA) who were given lead weakness by Eradicator.

https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Superman-1939/Annual-14?id=68952

In fact, they're weaker than Power Girl.

JSA Our Worlds At war 1

In fact, I'm not sure why you'd need to rely on Valor's feats unless Superman distinctly lacked any comparable feat. Which given his extensive history isn't all that good.

I already gave you better feats lol. I accept your concession for Valor's feat.

Was it confirmed in the story, or is this another interpretation on your part?

It is directly confirmed in the story.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I'm not sure. At least, from these scans(courtesy to sweet Stilt 😮 ), I feel this topic can be debated

Originally posted by Astner
Fair enough, so what do you think is a fair estimate here for how long he endured it at a time? Because the time he'd need to endure it would be the time it would take him to cross the distance between him and Superman and take a swing. And at that point (regardless of who you'd think would win) Heat Vision wouldn't matter.

The rest of your argument is based off evidence which you've admittedly refused to source. So by the burden of the rejoinder you've conceded that point.

Then Superman uses superspeed, flies somewhere else (but still within HV range) and....repeats.

Then HV would matter. Or he does it internally, inside Thor's brain.

But as for a fair time period?I honestly cannot say.It is in the space of four panels, which means nothing, so absent anything else, I would continue to use the analogy of a human with a candle.

I did not refuse to source it, I gave you a source - two words, S and M.

Refusing to EXPLICITLY reference something isn't conceding - I do not have to do your homework for you.

Also, nowhere does it state he's breathing solar plasma for weeks, any more than me diving into a pool every day for weeks = me breathing water for weeks.

Wonder Woman went from getting her wrist broken by bullets to no selling them under control of Eclipso.

Wonder Woman annual 3.

Lois Lane was swinging a tree around like a baseball bat.

Superman annual 4. There's a lot of such instances.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wonder Woman went from getting her wrist broken by bullets to no selling them under control of Eclipso.

😂

Even with bracelets? Seriously? 😂 😂 😂

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
😂

Even with bracelets? Seriously? 😂 😂 😂

Averages =

5 times or more for Surfer

10 for Supes and Thor who has far more showings than Surfer. FAR more.

Originally posted by carver9
Averages =

5 times or more for Surfer

10 for Supes and Thor who has far more showings than Surfer. FAR more.

You think they have 2x as many appearances?

And does the reverse hold true as well then, I e. Surfer only needs 5 'low' showings and it becomes 'consistent' for him? That's what I'm getting at.

On ignore list: Darksaint and Stilt

Carver thinks of us as of his parents.

Anyway, Captain Atom and Major Force are coated with dilustel which automatically reroutes all energy through quantum field and thus simply can't be burned.

Captain Atom 1

Cap doesn't even feels the heat of the sun.

https://imgur.io/vkCyxkC?r

Captain Atom : Armageddon 11

Major Force's skin is twice as tough as Cap's skin due to 200% metal used in the experiment.

Captain Atom 12

Superman ****ing melts Major Force.

Superman v2 185

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You think they have 2x as many appearances?

And does the reverse hold true as well then, I e. Surfer only needs 5 'low' showings and it becomes 'consistent' for him? That's what I'm getting at.

No lows here. We don't use lows in regular debates and we won't use them here.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Carver thinks of us as of his parents.

I think of you as my bugga boo.

Originally posted by carver9
No lows here. We don't use lows in regular debates and we won't use them here.

But what makes you say they are lows?

If I have 10 showings of Superman being taken out by tractor level attacks, and that means that's consistent for Superman, then it's not a low - it's consistent.

And for Surfer, I'll only need 5.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But what makes you say they are lows?

If I have 10 showings of Superman being taken out by tractor level attacks, and that means that's consistent for Superman, then it's not a low - it's consistent.

And for Surfer, I'll only need 5.

10 highs, not 10 lows. Averages and highs. Most of you debate primarily off of highs and ignore the in between. I'm guessing this is why it's difficult understanding the point of the thread since a group of you debating style is digging through a bunch of comics looking for that characters best. Here, it's the exact opposite. Highs aren't unusable here, you just have to find proof that it's a norm. No lows. We've never used them and won't here.

Originally posted by carver9
10 highs, not 10 lows. Averages and highs. Most of you debate primarily off of highs and ignore the in between. I'm guessing this is why it's difficult understanding the point of the thread since a group of you debating style is digging through a bunch of comics looking for that characters best. Here, it's the exact opposite. Highs aren't unusable here, you just have to find proof that it's a norm. No lows. We've never used them and won't here.

You're saying it needs about 5 showings for Surfer (because he has so few appearances) and 10 for Superman/Thor. Once those 5 or 10 showings are posted, it's their average, their norm - you can't say it's a low.

So if Abhi comes in with 5 showings of Surfer doing something, it's consistent, then? You just know he's itching to post them, lol. Probably has entire folders dedicated to it......

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But this goes back to my initial question - what is 'consistent'?

You're saying it needs about 5 showings for Surfer (because he has so few appearances) and 10 for Superman/Thor. Once those 5 or 10 showings are posted, it's their average, their norm - you can't say it's a low.

So if Abhi comes in with 5 showings of Surfer doing something, it's consistent, then? You just know he's itching to post them, lol. Probably has entire folders dedicated to it......

If it's under their average, then it's considered a low. You posting Hulk getting chocked out by a snake 5 times would be considered a low. You posting Hulk busting a planet 5 times with his pinkie would be considered a high. You posting Hulk punching a mountain to dust in 5 hits would be considered an average because we know what level these character operate at.

On average, Wolverine tussle with Captain America and Spiderman level characters. If I post 5 showings of him enduring punches to the face from Hulk/Superman level beings and he's okay afterwards, I can not discredit that showing. If someone counter that by posting Wolverine getting knocked out by a deer, then that's obviously a low showing. You're thinking waaaayyyy to hard on this. You know what a low showing is and you know what averages and high showings are. If you don't, then this thread just isn't for you.

Originally posted by carver9
If it's under their average, then it's considered a low. You posting Hulk getting chocked out by a snake 5 times would be considered a low. You posting Hulk busting a planet 5 times with his pinkie would be considered a high. You posting Hulk punching a mountain to dust in 5 hits would be considered an average because we know what level these character operate at.

On average, Wolverine tussle with Captain America and Spiderman level characters. If I post 5 showings of him enduring punches to the face from Hulk/Superman level beings and he's okay afterwards, I can not discredit that showing. If someone counter that by posting Wolverine getting knocked out by a deer, then that's obviously a low showing. You're thinking waaaayyyy to hard on this. You know what a low showing is and you know what averages and high showings are. If you don't, then this thread just isn't for you.

This post makes no sense. You literally typed:

Originally posted by carver9
Averages =

5 times or more for Surfer

10 for Supes and Thor who has far more showings than Surfer. FAR more.

Posting Surfer getting choked out by a snake or snake-level opponents, on 5 occasions (for example) = Surfer's average, according to your post.

So how can posting it a 6th time be a 'low'? Surely it is his average?

Using your Logan example, if I posted 5 separate times he was KOd by a deer, then...that's his average, no?

It sounds like your entire definition of what is 'average' is down to 'whatever I feel like at the time for the character'. Which could be 100% accurate, but that depends on you the reader having read every single comic of that character. And more often than not, one's bias/views will be injected into that character - you say you have read all of Hulk's appearances and think he's beyond herald level, abhi will counter that he has read all of them and Hulk is only mid-herald.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This post makes no sense.

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth "I tried to rip tinfoil, it wouldn't rip for me" Plagueis the Wise?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This post makes no sense. You literally typed:

Posting Surfer getting choked out by a snake or snake-level opponents, on 5 occasions (for example) = Surfer's average, according to your post.

So how can posting it a 6th time be a 'low'? Surely it is his average?

Using your Logan example, if I posted 5 separate times he was KOd by a deer, then...that's his average, no?

It sounds like your entire definition of what is 'average' is down to 'whatever I feel like at the time for the character'. Which could be 100% accurate, but that depends on you the reader having read every single comic of that character. And more often than not, one's bias/views will be injected into that character - you say you have read all of Hulk's appearances and think he's beyond herald level, abhi will counter that he has read all of them and Hulk is only mid-herald.

Surfer getting choked out by a snake is a low. A.V.E.R.A.G.E OR H.I.G.H. SHOWINGS ONLY. Erase lows from your skull.

Superman getting ran over by a tractor is a low showing, Hulk snake, Wolverine dear, Thanos Mexican, Thor falling from a building and dying, low. They are not welcomed in any thread, so don't use them here. Averages, Hulk punching a continental size meteor across space, Hulk bending secondary adamantium, Hulk throwing Fing Fang to the moon. High showings, Hulk shaking Earth in fist fights, Hulk cracking Thor skull in a single punch, Hulk tanking a scream that destroyed nearby stars, Hulk destroying a Universe in his fight against Night Crawler. The fts that are acceptable here, Averages, the fts that is also acceptable here, highs AS LONG AS YOU PROVIDE PROOF THAT HE DONE THESE HIGHS AT LEAST 5 TO 10 TIMES. If you can not provide proof that the highs has been done at least 5 to 10 times, then you will stick only to average showings. Example, I mention Surfer wins by blasting Superman to sleep with his powerful blasts. These are his average showings. Dark say, naah, that's not going to happen because Superman will blitz Surfer throughout the entire fight at nano second speeds. I ask for combat showings of Superman combating at light speeds but you can only show me 1 scan of him doing this (since combating at light speed is obviously a high showing). If you can't give me at least 10 instances of him combating at 186000 mps, then it's unusable. High showings are acceptable as long as you can provide evidence of him doing it on panel more than 5 or more. Averages, all fts are acceptable, lows are not acceptable at all.