Originally posted by DarkSaint85That was a Great idea I must admit. It guarantees that everyone will be statued at the start of the fight, except for the two amalgams I provided.
I'm definitely taking credit for adding the speed stealing/lending 👆
So, those who are statued must begin with immunity to both physical and magical attacks, or they face an automatic loss.
I can kinda see what h1 is trying to say. He is saying a normal human like Zoom, is able to be as fast as Wally. Now what happens if a speedster like Barry had Zoom's powers?
The problem is that h1 is just...wrong. Zoom's powers don't work like that, and even if they did, Wally would still be far faster.
When Wally had speed from Bart/Jay/Jesse, he was as fast as Zoom:
Note that they are where time is frozen completely still.
So let's say Flobo speedsteals from 3 Wallys in the prep phase. He is now FASTER than Zoom, as Wally took <100% of inferior speedsters to be at Zoom's level. I assume in the prep phase, Flobo could easily take 100% of 3xWallys.
Lowballing severely here, Flobo is now = Zoom.
BUT BUT BUT THE AMALGAM HAS BARRY THERE!
So.....h1's amalgam to 'base' Zoom/OG Flobo is akin to Barry to a normal human. What can Flobo do?
Oh yeah, this 'normal' human, can just speedsteal from a million other Flobos. Whilst an additional million other Flobos can try speedstealing from h1's amalgam. Or a hundred million. Really, just pick a number. It's going to be this, but with nakey supersmart superstrong magicians speedstealing and speed lending and Ovoid mind-transferring and exploding number-techniquing all over the place:
Edit: and that ignores any tech built in the prep phase. Doom is a supergenius....Lobo is no slouch either.
Booby-trapping New God tech against Darkseid:
https://i.postimg.cc/Xvn3shf7/D.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xdgQhR5G/RCO049-w-1492760594.jpg
And here, creating bioweapons that can kill his entire race (whilst making sure he alone is immune):
https://i.postimg.cc/z57QggLs/RCO010-1469407397.jpg
Originally posted by DarkSaint85👆 That's pretty much what I've been saying too.
I can kinda see what h1 is trying to say. He is saying a normal human like Zoom, is able to be as fast as Wally. Now what happens if a speedster like Barry had Zoom's powers?The problem is that h1 is just...wrong. Zoom's powers don't work like that, and even if they did, Wally would still be far faster.
When Wally had speed from Bart/Jay/Jesse, he was as fast as Zoom:
Note that they are where time is frozen completely still.
So let's say Flobo speedsteals from 3 Wallys in the prep phase. He is now FASTER than Zoom, as Wally took <100% of inferior speedsters to be at Zoom's level. I assume in the prep phase, Flobo could easily take 100% of 3xWallys.
Lowballing severely here, Flobo is now = Zoom.
BUT BUT BUT THE AMALGAM HAS BARRY THERE!
So.....h1's amalgam to 'base' Zoom/OG Flobo is akin to Barry to a normal human. What can Flobo do?
Oh yeah, this 'normal' human, can just speedsteal from a million other Flobos. Whilst an [b]additional
million other Flobos can try speedstealing from h1's amalgam. Or a hundred million. Really, just pick a number. It's going to be this, but with nakey supersmart superstrong magicians speedstealing and speed lending and Ovoid mind-transferring and exploding number-techniquing all over the place:[/B]
If Wally+Bart+Jay+Jesse = Zoom, then Wally+Wally+Wally+Wally should definitely be > Zoom.
ie. With the ability to speed-steal from equally powerful clones, it means Dr. Flobo can absorb the speed of just 3 clones, and he should already be faster than Zoom. Just 4 clones and he's FAR faster. Just 5-6 clones and Zoom should be a statue.
Then factor in the sheer amount of clones that Dr. Flobo could potentially speed-steal from during his prep phase:
...And there is absolutely no way anyone is making a 'speedier' clone under these conditions, imho. Everyone would be a literal statue.Originally posted by Galan007
I think you might be underestimating just how vast an unrestricted Dr. Flobo army can become in a very short period of time.Even if my initial clone "only" produced, say, 50,000 drops of blood(which really isn't much at all, especially with Lobo's HF + the directive to do this continuously for an hour at superspeed), and then those 50,000 clones did the exact same thing, that already puts my numbers at 2.5 BILLION. If those clones then did the same thing, it puts my numbers at...well...tell me what 2.5b x 50k is. 🙂
...And that all takes place within the first few seconds(hell, you can even say minutes if you want) of Dr. Flobo's prep phase. You could very well end up with a multiverse-worth of clones in an hour if Flobo went really hard. 👆
Originally posted by LordGod
1.25e+14.If you allow for just one more round using the 50000 figure you get 6.25e+18 clones. One more round and you get 3.125e+23 clones. That is absolute insanity, you weren't kidding about a multiverse of clones. 😂
All that limits the clone army is the amount of time it takes for them to grow.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85👆👆
Edit: and that ignores any tech built in the prep phase. Doom is a supergenius....Lobo is no slouch either.Booby-trapping New God tech against Darkseid:
https://i.postimg.cc/Xvn3shf7/D.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xdgQhR5G/RCO049-w-1492760594.jpgAnd here, creating bioweapons that can kill his entire race (whilst making sure he alone is immune):
https://i.postimg.cc/z57QggLs/RCO010-1469407397.jpg
I'd also add(since I don't think I've posted the scans yet), that Dr. Flobo would be borderline immune to TP as well.
On his own, Doom can tell a probing Emma Frost to f*ck off:
https://ibb.co/0p7FpP7k
On his own, Lobo(and anyone cloned from his blood) can shut-out Starro the Conqueror:
https://ibb.co/GfDPynGz
And Starro's TP was backed by the collective minds of nine galaxies-worth of sentient beings(hundredS of trillionS of minds), and sufficient to casually mindphuck even the likes of Despero:
https://ibb.co/F4JT6rh6
https://ibb.co/214mbDZR
https://ibb.co/7J4kTkqM
...Yet Lobo's mind was immune. Neat!
IOW, I can't think of a telepath who wouldn't be very hard-pressed to mindphuck just one Dr. Flobo(if they even could at all) -- nevermind thousands/millions/billions/whatever of Flobos all moving around at >> Zoom-level speeds. So adding a strictly TP-based component into your amalgam is a total waste, imo. ermm
Sure!
Now that a lopsided battle has more or less been hashed out, I think it might be fun to see what kind of strats can be produced with prep... But just to be clear: your amalgams get the same prep conditions as Dr. Flobo(ie. 1 hour means 1 hour.) No time shenanigans and whatnot to extend your prep time in any way. I'd also like to keep the use of universal relics and whatnot(like my toon-level "Dr. Flobo gathers the UN and Worlogog, ftw!" strat) out of this battle unless you feel it's absolutely necessary to get the 'w' -- I want to focus more on character abilities/potential here.
*Just for future clarity's sake, I'll reflect this change in the OP/title as two different scenarios.
Mwahaha.
I draft Martian Manhunter, Zoom, and Multiple Man.
I use my prep to make clones and to write signs (normal signs).
Match starts, I flood the battle zone with clones who have signs, asking one thing:
How many clones do YOU have, Flobo?
One of the clones will say the number. Or maybe three of them will say it. Or maybe 500 of them.
I of course enter the match intangible (but not invisible, so the signs can still be read). The resulting explosion takes everyone out, the fire burns all blood away, and I am fine. Remember:
Originally posted by LordGod
1.25e+14.If you allow for just one more round using the 50000 figure you get 6.25e+18 clones. One more round and you get 3.125e+23 clones. That is absolute insanity, you weren't kidding about a multiverse of clones. 😂
All that limits the clone army is the amount of time it takes for them to grow.
Dr. Flobo also has the intellect of Doom... But even if he fell for that sort of thing, there's no guarantee it would work anyway(Lobo himself survived that explosion, didn't he?)
I'd also add that aside from the initial clone army I would amass during my prep phase, I might also have Dr. Flobo utilize a few hundred clones(maybe more) to act as "breeders" when the match starts. IOW, their only job would be to stand on the sidelines and continuously produce as many clones as possible during the battle itself -- they'd literally be creating millions more clones every few seconds(this is aside from any blood-clones spawned as a result of damage taken from my opponent's amalgam, obvs.)
To reiterate...
peaches
^ Just Google "how many drops of blood are in an average adult human body?" Based on the handful of articles I skimmed through, 50k drops per "bleedout" seems like a very realistic [albeit conservative] figure for each clone. Lmk if I'm wrong, I guess? /shrug
Remember, I'm having all of the clones essentially decapitate themselves in order to produce the *most* blood in the *shortest* amount of time, heal from that almost immediately, then do it all over again. Continuously. At superspeed... And while I understand that some characters might not be up for slicing off their own heads numerous times for the lulz(intentionally causing physical harm to yourself is a very difficult mental block for most to overcome)... But Dr. Flobo? He'd likely enjoy it:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I can kinda see what h1 is trying to say. He is saying a normal human like Zoom, is able to be as fast as Wally. Now what happens if a speedster like Barry had Zoom's powers?The problem is that h1 is just...wrong. Zoom's powers don't work like that, and even if they did, Wally would still be far faster.
When Wally had speed from Bart/Jay/Jesse, he was as fast as Zoom:
Note that they are where time is frozen completely still.
So let's say Flobo speedsteals from 3 Wallys in the prep phase. He is now FASTER than Zoom, as Wally took <100% of inferior speedsters to be at Zoom's level. I assume in the prep phase, Flobo could easily take 100% of 3xWallys.
Lowballing severely here, Flobo is now = Zoom.
BUT BUT BUT THE AMALGAM HAS BARRY THERE!
So.....h1's amalgam to 'base' Zoom/OG Flobo is akin to Barry to a normal human. What can Flobo do?
Oh yeah, this 'normal' human, can just speedsteal from a million other Flobos. Whilst an [b]additional
million other Flobos can try speedstealing from h1's amalgam. Or a hundred million. Really, just pick a number. It's going to be this, but with nakey supersmart superstrong magicians speedstealing and speed lending and Ovoid mind-transferring and exploding number-techniquing all over the place:Edit: and that ignores any tech built in the prep phase. Doom is a supergenius....Lobo is no slouch either.
Booby-trapping New God tech against Darkseid:
https://i.postimg.cc/Xvn3shf7/D.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xdgQhR5G/RCO049-w-1492760594.jpgAnd here, creating bioweapons that can kill his entire race (whilst making sure he alone is immune):
https://i.postimg.cc/z57QggLs/RCO010-1469407397.jpg [/B]
Actually you're not getting what I'm saying. Zoom doesn't freeze time to a halt, he slows it down relative to his frame (time dilation effect). This makes everything around him appear to move in extreme slow motion, giving the illusion of super speed.
Inside Zoom's time bubble, an attosecond outside the bubble would be as a normal second for Zoom.
Also inside Zoom's time bubble, Barry would move and operate relative to Zoom the same way he would to a normal human outside the bubble.
In other words, outside the bubble, a second to Barry is like an attosecond to a normal human. Inside the bubble, a second to Barry is like an attosecond to Zoom. This means that within the bubble, Barry would perceive an attosecond of an attosecond (1e-36 of a second) as a normal second.
Now speed steal works additively. For example, If three people can each run 20mph and one steals the other's speed, they gain an additional 40mph to their own speed, tripling (3x) their speed. Likewise, if someone steals speed from a billion equal individuals, they become a billion and one times faster. and would have a billion and one times faster perceptions.
So if Wally perceives an attosecond as a full second, then after stealing speed from a billion equal individuals, his perception would be a billion times faster, meaning he would now perceive a billionth of an attosecond (1e-27 seconds) as a full second. However, this is is still a billion times slower than Barry operating in Zoom's time bubble.
In reality, Zoom starts off at least three times faster than Wally (since Wally needs at least two others to match him), meaning the actual difference would be greater than a billion times faster.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
these fusions are garbage against flobo honestly. stop acting like you're really onto something here, it's so cringe lol. 😘
Zoom doesn't freeze time to a halt, he slows it down relative to his frame (time dilation effect). This makes everything around him appear to move in extreme slow motion, giving the illusion of super speed.Inside Zoom's time bubble, an attosecond outside the bubble would be as a normal second for Zoom.
Also inside Zoom's time bubble, Barry would move and operate relative to Zoom the same way he would to a normal human outside the bubble.
In other words, outside the bubble, a second to Barry is like an attosecond to a normal human. Inside the bubble, a second to Barry is like an attosecond to Zoom. This means that within the bubble, Barry would perceive an attosecond of an attosecond (1e-36 of a second) as a normal second.
Now speed steal works additively. For example, If three people can each run 20mph and one steals the other's speed, they gain an additional 40mph to their own speed, tripling (3x) their speed. Likewise, if someone steals speed from a billion equal individuals, they become a billion and one times faster. and would have a billion and one times faster perceptions.
So if Wally perceives an attosecond as a full second, then after stealing speed from a billion equal individuals, his perception would be a billion times faster, meaning he would now perceive a billionth of an attosecond (1e-27 seconds) as a full second. However, this is is still a billion times slower than Barry operating in Zoom's time bubble.
In reality, Zoom starts off at least three times faster than Wally (since Wally needs at least two others to match him), meaning the actual difference would be greater than a billion times faster.
Nate has a feat where he enters Planck time. Since Barry is operating within Zoom's time bubble, he would act first. His first move would be to enter Planck time (1e-44 seconds). This is exponentially faster than a trillion times Wally's perception speed
